Trading vs Playing poker, will it help with my trading?
- Thread starter magix3d
- Start date
Poker can help with your discipline and patience, and can also help you really internalize the concept of expectation which is very key to being a profitable trader. There are a lot of concepts in each that don't really map to the other, so don't try to find links where there aren't any, but these three definitely map fairly straight across.
Why are you a horrible poker player? Is it because you don't understand the right thing to do in certain situations? Or you know the right thing to do but do the wrong thing anyway? The first one I wouldn't worry too much about. The second one will be a problem in trading too, so you need to conquer it.
I happen to know a lot about this subject.
I've trained 10 professional poker players to trade the fx markets.
I can pretty much assure you that if you do not have the discipline and self control to beat poker consistently you will almost have no chance of making it as a trader.
The traits to become a pro poker player are almost exactly the same as a professional trader.
You learn what constitutes an edge or as we say in the poker world +EV and you simply exploit it till it's no longer +EV or an edge.
The hard part is understanding what an edge or +ev move really is.
In poker you get large sample sizes and you can define +ev mathematically, in trading you can do the same through back testing and forward testing but even with edge or +ev there will always be some level of subjectivity based on context and it's in this "subjectivity context" where the pro trader and the pro poker player are defined.
I've trained 10 professional poker players to trade the fx markets.
I can pretty much assure you that if you do not have the discipline and self control to beat poker consistently you will almost have no chance of making it as a trader.
The traits to become a pro poker player are almost exactly the same as a professional trader.
You learn what constitutes an edge or as we say in the poker world +EV and you simply exploit it till it's no longer +EV or an edge.
The hard part is understanding what an edge or +ev move really is.
In poker you get large sample sizes and you can define +ev mathematically, in trading you can do the same through back testing and forward testing but even with edge or +ev there will always be some level of subjectivity based on context and it's in this "subjectivity context" where the pro trader and the pro poker player are defined.
If you want to work on patience, poker can be a great training spot. Here's a quick way to work on that patience - only play the top 10 starting hands.
That's it.
You don't even have to play them, you can just watch to see when they show up on your screen. Count that as a 'win'. Keep a tally on how many times the top 10 starting hands appear vs. the times they don't.
Like I said, you don't even have to play the hands then. Get on pokerstars, open a fake money account and start your tallies.
http://boardgames.about.com/od/poker/tp/best_starting.htm
Play/tally those cards and those cards only. This is purely an exercise of patience AND focus. See how many hands you miss b/c you weren't paying attention.
That's it.
You don't even have to play them, you can just watch to see when they show up on your screen. Count that as a 'win'. Keep a tally on how many times the top 10 starting hands appear vs. the times they don't.
Like I said, you don't even have to play the hands then. Get on pokerstars, open a fake money account and start your tallies.
http://boardgames.about.com/od/poker/tp/best_starting.htm
Play/tally those cards and those cards only. This is purely an exercise of patience AND focus. See how many hands you miss b/c you weren't paying attention.
None.
What a great, informative post!
How about - why do you think poker cannot aid an aspiring trader?
Is it the patience part (see above), money management, learning your competition, picking your spots... what part(s) are not useful exactly?
Personally I found it to be a great training ground. Patience really is the key to both games.
It really shows you how you have to find the flow of the game and just wait for your opportunities. Sometimes they come fast and furious other times they just drip out slowly.
It also stresses the need to have the ability to shift strategy depending on what the flow is like.
I spent a year become proficient at it. Haven't played since. The market provides much bigger liquidity.
+1
As someone who is a VERY successful trader...
And have executed about 1,500,000 trades in my career...
And have put a LOT of time into poker over 5 years...
I almost 100% disagree with you.
Your thinking is based on the erroneous belief...
That successful traders make large directional bets...
And somehow outmaneuver large firms...
In a rigged, computer-driven, corrupt ecosystem...
When in fact virtually all successful trading firms...
Practice some form of market-neutral arbitrage or make markets.
The core skills required to play elite poker...
Are very different from those required to run a risk arbitrage operation...
Specifically, a poker player MUST enjoy gambling...
And MUST enjoy taking risks large enough to result in ruin.
That's why 90% of poker pros have degen gambling issues...
Self-identify themselves as "gamblers"...
Having CHOSEN a career with 10-20 times the variance of trading..
In sharp contrast...
Pro Traders view themselves as businessmen...
And generally have no interest in high risk gambling.
The mathematical skills required may be similar...
But poker and trading on an elite level...
Require very different personality types.
To put it a different way...
Successful trading firms position themselves as the Casino...
Top Poker Pros are forever the Gambler.