Trading vs Investing

[oldtime]

Quote from tradin4profits:

Quote from emg:

let me make it easier for ya;


if u begin your trading career as a "SMALL TRADER," u will lose. u, as a small trader, will have a better chance of winning on investing.



This is so not true...........Pure BS!

he started out small, and lost all his money, and has never quite gotten over it, and he is still looking for someone, or something, to blame for his failure other than himself.

 

[Handle123]

Starting approx 35 years ago, had I just stayed with long term stocks, I figured I would have five times more than what I have now. But venturing into futures cost me several years for the learning curve, day trading is not close to long term as far as quality of life. Like now, it takes 30 seconds per day to apply long term trading in Dow 30 stocks, but day trading I spend up to 2.50 hours or so. The very best I can make is one to one in day trading and often much less whereas long term I can make 12 to 1 reward to risk.

But biggest factor is quality of life, tooks years to get good at day trading. When friends were going on vacations, I was trading/studying, when friends were having a life, I was trading/studying. I wanted to get good and eventually did, but at a cost. But that is like anything in life.

Once my health problems ends in a few months though, am going to walk away from most trading to do anything else. Maybe do couple trades a week for kicks so as not to forget nuances.

 

[newwurldmn]

Quote from Handle123:

Starting approx 35 years ago, had I just stayed with long term stocks, I figured I would have five times more than what I have now. But venturing into futures cost me several years for the learning curve, day trading is not close to long term as far as quality of life. Like now, it takes 30 seconds per day to apply long term trading in Dow 30 stocks, but day trading I spend up to 2.50 hours or so. The very best I can make is one to one in day trading and often much less whereas long term I can make 12 to 1 reward to risk.

But biggest factor is quality of life, tooks years to get good at day trading. When friends were going on vacations, I was trading/studying, when friends were having a life, I was trading/studying. I wanted to get good and eventually did, but at a cost. But that is like anything in life.

Once my health problems ends in a few months though, am going to walk away from most trading to do anything else. Maybe do couple trades a week for kicks so as not to forget nuances.

You aren't alone. Many statistics support your story. And when you account for taxes and soft costs, it skews a lot more against trading.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from Handle123:

Starting approx 35 years ago, had I just stayed with long term stocks, I figured I would have five times more than what I have now. But venturing into futures cost me several years for the learning curve, day trading is not close to long term as far as quality of life. Like now, it takes 30 seconds per day to apply long term trading in Dow 30 stocks, but day trading I spend up to 2.50 hours or so. The very best I can make is one to one in day trading and often much less whereas long term I can make 12 to 1 reward to risk.

But biggest factor is quality of life, tooks years to get good at day trading. When friends were going on vacations, I was trading/studying, when friends were having a life, I was trading/studying. I wanted to get good and eventually did, but at a cost. But that is like anything in life.

Once my health problems ends in a few months though, am going to walk away from most trading to do anything else. Maybe do couple trades a week for kicks so as not to forget nuances.

so basically, trading is a hobby for fun and profit, as long as it doesn't kill you

that's about where it's at for me now

but in the early days, we didn't have any choice

how we ever survived I'll never know

Thank G-d we didn't have the info telling us how impossible the probability of succeeding was.

Like they told me, "Just beat that long bond and everything else will take care of itself."

 

[ofthomas]

Quote from emg:

let me make it easier for ya;

More than 90% of small traders lose! They just lose!!

what you fail to understand is the reason why most "small traders" lose... and also, what does one define as small anyhow?

improper expectations and lack of risk management is what makes 90% of all traders (regardless of size) lose in the markets... not the account size... if you can manage your risk and have proper expectations in terms of return from that capital, then you can make it... that simple... an edge is important, but risk management is more important than having an edge IMO... you can have an edge and still mess up the risk management portion and be part of that 90%...

 

[ofthomas]

Quote from FCXoptions:

How many of you all think you could have done better if you had just invested long term instead of trying to trade your account? I am just kind of curious.

trading = investing and investing = trading... the only difference is the timeframe, nothing more.

I invest/trade for the short term... that can be an hour, a day or a month... specially if trade is going in my favor and one manages the position... this concept applies to everything... financial instruments and real estate alike... I've always traded my account, just with different timeframes...

 

[ofthomas]

Quote from Handle123:

Starting approx 35 years ago, had I just stayed with long term stocks, I figured I would have five times more than what I have now. But venturing into futures cost me several years for the learning curve, day trading is not close to long term as far as quality of life. Like now, it takes 30 seconds per day to apply long term trading in Dow 30 stocks, but day trading I spend up to 2.50 hours or so. The very best I can make is one to one in day trading and often much less whereas long term I can make 12 to 1 reward to risk.

But biggest factor is quality of life, tooks years to get good at day trading. When friends were going on vacations, I was trading/studying, when friends were having a life, I was trading/studying. I wanted to get good and eventually did, but at a cost. But that is like anything in life.

Once my health problems ends in a few months though, am going to walk away from most trading to do anything else. Maybe do couple trades a week for kicks so as not to forget nuances.

how is that any different from having a "career" aka job, to which you dedicate 10 hours a day or possibly more depending on the field for less money and deductions leading to more taxes?

trading is whatever the individual makes off it... IMO.

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from tradin4profits:

Quote from emg:

let me make it easier for ya;


if u begin your trading career as a "SMALL TRADER," u will lose. u, as a small trader, will have a better chance of winning on investing.



This is so not true...........Pure BS!

==================
Good, wise point;
especially since when learning to trade/invest.Smaller is better for sure.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from ofthomas:

trading = investing and investing = trading... the only difference is the timeframe, nothing more.

I invest/trade for the short term... that can be an hour, a day or a month... specially if trade is going in my favor and one manages the position... this concept applies to everything... financial instruments and real estate alike... I've always traded my account, just with different timeframes...

now don't do that. I've heard that before from some people I respect. True, it usually takes a longer time for the investor's scenario to play out. But the difference is not how long it takes.

 

[ofthomas]

Quote from oldtime:

now don't do that. I've heard that before from some people I respect. True, it usually takes a longer time for the investor's scenario to play out. But the difference is not how long it takes.

not following...

my statement is that we are all investors with different timeframes given a view...

for example, if I believed Crude was going to continue to appreciate as the dollar continued its decline over the next 6 months, I will enter a trade to reflect that view and use that as my timeframe...

but if I thought that instead due to seasonal reasons or given inventory surpluses Crude was going to experience weakness based demand/supply/inventory over the next few days or weeks, then I would trade to express that view and hedge my fx risk...

I am still invest/trading, given my view and timeframe...

so in your opinion, what are the differences then?