Trading very big money

[El OchoCinco]

That's the core of the question. I was thinking that one can profit best/highest by trading such big money,
but you say there are more profitable ways like owning real estate/business, ie. investing. Is that really truly?
What about the big banks and investment houses? They are more active with trading than owning property, isn't it?
How much profit is possible with real estate and business, maybe 10% p.a.,
I think by using active trading one should be able to make much more than what is possible with investing in real estates/businesses.
The problem with such big money is of course finding markets and counterparties for making big trades.

Investment banks are businesses...Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs are not making their fortunes by trading, it is from commissions, transaction fees, market making, IPOs, financing, etc..

Warren Buffet is rich from owning businesses not trading stocks like a piker.

Real estate and owning a business is the true path to riches, especially if you are already rolling in millions.

You to understand where real wealth is derived from. No day trader is making millions of dollars on the reg. A billionaire is putting money in bonds and stocks as a means of investing or securing money already eared from daddy, real estate or business.

 

[Sig]

Investment banks are businesses...Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs are not making their fortunes by trading, it is from commissions, transaction fees, market making, IPOs, financing, etc..

Warren Buffet is rich from owning businesses not trading stocks like a piker.

Real estate and owning a business is the true path to riches, especially if you are already rolling in millions.

You to understand where real wealth is derived from. No day trader is making millions of dollars on the reg. A billionaire is putting money in bonds and stocks as a means of investing or securing money already eared from daddy, real estate or business.

True words for sure. I'd say the only exceptions are if you can pull a Soros and force a currency to revalue or corner a market. Same thing with activist investing, i.e. buying up a company with a bunch of value locked up and forcing them to unlock it or buying enough junior distressed debt in a failing company to force the senior debt holders to pay you off to avoid a protracted chapter 11. None of those is trading like a piker though, in fact just the opposite they're taking advantage of the ability to move markets through size instead of trying to avoid it.

 

[Rationalize]

Investment banks are businesses...Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs are not making their fortunes by trading, it is from commissions, transaction fees, market making, IPOs, financing, etc..
...

you're mostly wrong there. the commission business barely breaks even. research is a loser. IPOs yes. but the biggest single delta to the overall p/l is the trading books.

 

[Sig]

you're mostly wrong there. the commission business barely breaks even. research is a loser. IPOs yes. but the biggest single delta to the overall p/l is the trading books.

That's an interesting comment to make given that Merrill and GS shut down their prop trading groups in 2012, as did all the U.S. bulge bracket banks, and are not longer legally allowed to prop trade. Yet somehow they are still doing pretty well. Sure there is a little prop trading going on in the guise of risk management, but it's not nearly to the level to be providing "the biggest single delta to the overall p/l", and if you look at their financial statements that certainly isn't the case.

 

[Rationalize]

"client facilitation" = prop trading
you're running a prop book off the back of client trades
or managing a hedge book vs your warrants / other exotics you've dealt
any way you present it, you're trading prop
with compliance ticking it off as "client facilitation"

 

[OddTrader]

How would you trade an account of size say $10 billion?
As we all know trading big money and making comparable profits like small money is not that easy.
So, what are the best classes of instruments to invest or trade that big money for making the most profit?

Cash can be the biggest bet!

Buffett’s $55 Billion Gamble is a Bet on U.S. Collapse, Warns CIA Economist

http://totalwealthresearch.com/rick...-gamble-bet-u-s-collapse-warns-cia-economist/

Did Warren Buffett just make a $55 billion bet on an imminent market crash?

A single financial document has emerged that may hold the answer.

According to a new SEC filing, Buffett is sitting on $55 billion in cash through his company Berkshire Hathaway. This is highly unusual behavior from a man often called "the world’s greatest investor."

It’s the biggest cash hoard the company has ever amassed, in the 40 years he’s been in charge.

At a cost of $29 million every single day he keeps his money out of the markets, from all outward appearances, this is a risky and costly gamble. Unless Buffett is sure a Wall Street crash is at our doorstep.

 

[Sig]

"client facilitation" = prop trading
you're running a prop book off the back of client trades
or managing a hedge book vs your warrants / other exotics you've dealt
any way you present it, you're trading prop
with compliance ticking it off as "client facilitation"

Like I said, while that certainly goes on there's absolutely no evidence that the prop trading portion of it provides the "single biggest delta to p/l". In fact the breakdown of profits on financial statements would indicate otherwise, as well as the size of the desks vs the size of the former prop desks, the star traders who all left in 2012 without being replaced by anyone known as a trader at all, as well as the fact that the people in what you maintain to be thinly disguised prop trading desks aren't compensated based on the performance of their books and hence have less than zero incentive to break federal law to enrich the bank..... If you're into a whole grand conspiracy theory then no point in continued discussion, but all evidence points to prop trading making up a tiny part of the revenue, let alone p/l for any of the major i-banks.
--Edited to say prop trading--

 

[Rationalize]

nothing to do with betting
meh. let's assume you know what you're talking about
the floor's yours - tell us how it is champ

 

[eurusdzn]

Real estate even at the lowest level, an individual borrowing to purchase a home, is a levered
investment with low liquidity and expensive commissions.
Returns on initial margin or equity ar nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Sig]

nothing to do with betting
meh. let's assume you know what you're talking about
the floor's yours - tell us how it is champ

I just did, if you disagree then feel free to articulate why. Otherwise not sure what your point with the "mehs" and "champs" are, just an inability to admit you're wrong?