I watch CNBC some but I missed this. Good thing too or I would have spit my coffee on the screen.
Thought we needed a break from all this serious trader talk:
Thought we needed a break from all this serious trader talk:
Trading the E-mini: Results Comparison
- Thread starter GoldenEagleTrading
- Start date
That's awesome.
All this talk, and I thought, like, *yardsticks* and such were gonna come out, and we could all whip out our Johnsons and wave 'em around and measure them and put it all up on a whiteboard and and and....
"Cuz I fold it."
"Cuz I fold it."
...I will download that video clip, and watch it daily,
-- Someone is always getting fucked in the market...just hope it's not you,
...I will download that video clip, and watch it daily,
Funny stuff. Anyhoo, in my mind, and how I have come to learn the terminology of the last 30 years or so, is the following...
A "tick" is the smallest increment the instrument can move.
A point is a single-whole-decimal move. Anything under a single-whole-decimal move, <1.x, is a tick.
1 point in CL is, for example, 40.00 to 41.00. Since it moves in .01 increments, there are 100 ticks to a point.
ES moves in .25 increments. So 5000.00 to 5001.00 is one point, which is 4 "ticks". Start at 5000.00...5000.25, 5000.50, 5000.75, 5001.00. 4 ticks to make one point.
YM moves in whole-decimals. So 21000 to 21004 = 4 points, but since there are no <1.x movements in YM, the smallest increment it moves is 1.0, thus we can also call them ticks (At least I do in my head.)
So when we call them ticks, we're asking how many "smallest-increments" of the instrument we made or lost on a trade.
If you made 1 point on ES, you made $50 per contract. Cool.
If you made 1 point on CL, you made $1,000 per contract. Cooler.
It's so easy, a caveman can do it!
End of line.
....big print edition below...
re: "So how many handles you get in the ES TODAY? It is dead as a wooden peg from the medieval age"
--yeah, that's why Google counts 176,000 hits when used to describe the ES. Google "cme group specifications for ES contract + handles" -- Google even auto suggests "handles".
...any discussion by traders of the ES is done with >>> their FCM <<<. What the FCM says, goes.
"One tick (or the minimal increment) is equal to $12.50. For each point there are 4 ticks. So a movement of 4 ticks * $12.50 per point is $50.00 profit/loss per point. Total round-turn (in and out) trade costs (all costs) usually runs less than $5.00."
cme does not use the term "points" in explaining the ES contract
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/eminifaq.html
How are E-mini contracts different from the larger contracts?
further discussion of "handles"
https://mrtopstep.com/10-handle-rule/
After many years of doing index arbitrage in the S&P futures (program trading) we noticed that the S&P often moves in 10-handle increments
here's another FCM
https://www.unitedfutures.com/emini.html
Each 100-point move ("handle") in the E-Mini S&P 500 futures contract equals $50. A two "handle" move from 1100.00 to 1102.00 equals $100. A one-half "handle" move from 1100.00 to 1100.50 equals $25.
...another FCM discusses handles
With the normal day-trading margin of $2,000, one of our typical 8-10 handle (see the upcoming section, "What is a point?" for explanation of the term handle) trades will net you a $400 to $500 gain
http://www.21stcenturyfutures.com/page/tcf/aboutus/basics.html
POINTS only reference WHOLE NUMBERS... The ES spread and trading is less than a point...DUH...It is always referenced by "ticks", never points in a micro / trade or stop sense, which is what MY post was about. I was not referencing the daily range of the ES, I was replying to the precise post regarding trade entry, profit and stops.
When the tape is played back of the phone call it's what the FCM understood what was communicated. NOTE: Stop posting misinformation on a trading forum. If you are a newbie trader and you're on the phone with your FCM discussing an ES trade, be sure and use "ticks". When referencing one or more 4 tick moves, using the term 'handle' is very clear to the FCM or use the # of ticks (which is easiest). Points are for the Dow/YM contract; ticks & handles are for the ES contract.
Never use the term "points" when you're discussing the ES with an FCM, the probability of a rather large mistake can be in the making. When saying the ES had a 20 point range yesterday, that is acceptable; when discussing bracket orders or stop orders, use of that term is dangerous to your account equity. Again, stop posting misinformation.
This is the link for the CME group settlement specs on the ES contract.
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/e-mini-sandp500.html
"Points" is never mentioned.
"Ticks" are mentioned.
...to the newbies, ...be careful reading what these guys in boxer shorts in Momma's basement post, discuss the fine points with your FCM, ask the same question twice to make sure you get the same answer. It could mean the difference between a winning trade or a 4 figure loss if you don't get your verbiage right.
>>> done with this thread <<< ignore misinformation.
re: "So how many handles you get in the ES TODAY? It is dead as a wooden peg from the medieval age"
--yeah, that's why Google counts 176,000 hits when used to describe the ES. Google "cme group specifications for ES contract + handles" -- Google even auto suggests "handles".
...any discussion by traders of the ES is done with >>> their FCM <<<. What the FCM says, goes.
"One tick (or the minimal increment) is equal to $12.50. For each point there are 4 ticks. So a movement of 4 ticks * $12.50 per point is $50.00 profit/loss per point. Total round-turn (in and out) trade costs (all costs) usually runs less than $5.00."
cme does not use the term "points" in explaining the ES contract
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/eminifaq.html
How are E-mini contracts different from the larger contracts?
- The E-mini contract values are one-fifth the size of the larger contracts.
- The E-mini tick sizes are different:
- E-mini S&P 500 tick size is .25, or $12.50 per tick (.05 for calendar spreads = to $2.50 per tick) versus a tick size of .10, or $25 per tick (.05 for calendar spreads = $12.50 per tick) for the big S&P 500 futures contract"
further discussion of "handles"
https://mrtopstep.com/10-handle-rule/
After many years of doing index arbitrage in the S&P futures (program trading) we noticed that the S&P often moves in 10-handle increments
here's another FCM
https://www.unitedfutures.com/emini.html
Each 100-point move ("handle") in the E-Mini S&P 500 futures contract equals $50. A two "handle" move from 1100.00 to 1102.00 equals $100. A one-half "handle" move from 1100.00 to 1100.50 equals $25.
...another FCM discusses handles
With the normal day-trading margin of $2,000, one of our typical 8-10 handle (see the upcoming section, "What is a point?" for explanation of the term handle) trades will net you a $400 to $500 gain
http://www.21stcenturyfutures.com/page/tcf/aboutus/basics.html
POINTS only reference WHOLE NUMBERS... The ES spread and trading is less than a point...DUH...It is always referenced by "ticks", never points in a micro / trade or stop sense, which is what MY post was about. I was not referencing the daily range of the ES, I was replying to the precise post regarding trade entry, profit and stops.
When the tape is played back of the phone call it's what the FCM understood what was communicated. NOTE: Stop posting misinformation on a trading forum. If you are a newbie trader and you're on the phone with your FCM discussing an ES trade, be sure and use "ticks". When referencing one or more 4 tick moves, using the term 'handle' is very clear to the FCM or use the # of ticks (which is easiest). Points are for the Dow/YM contract; ticks & handles are for the ES contract.
Never use the term "points" when you're discussing the ES with an FCM, the probability of a rather large mistake can be in the making. When saying the ES had a 20 point range yesterday, that is acceptable; when discussing bracket orders or stop orders, use of that term is dangerous to your account equity. Again, stop posting misinformation.
This is the link for the CME group settlement specs on the ES contract.
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/e-mini-sandp500.html
"Points" is never mentioned.
"Ticks" are mentioned.
...to the newbies, ...be careful reading what these guys in boxer shorts in Momma's basement post, discuss the fine points with your FCM, ask the same question twice to make sure you get the same answer. It could mean the difference between a winning trade or a 4 figure loss if you don't get your verbiage right.
>>> done with this thread <<< ignore misinformation.
Last edited:
Wow in the contract specs it talks about points, you my friend are completely clueless.
Once again I'll post this link dillweed.
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equity-index/us-index/e-mini-sandp500_contract_specifications.html
I gotta reply to this since algofy is ***misrepresenting*** what the cme is stating. the cme is stating "0.25 index points".
Notice the word "point" is NEVER USED. It is referred to as "0.25 points"
Set my stop ONE POINT below my fill...try that algofy and let us know what happens. Ask your Mom if $12.50 (she's upstairs cooking you dinner) the same as $50??? Hey Newbies, algofy thinks $12.50 (a quarter point) is THE SAME as a point ($50.00). algofy is not ready for prime time.
Newbies, notice the multiple FCM links that I posted above that directly reference "handles". No shame in using it when it applies.
Seeya !!
Good Trading everybody, and WATCH your stops ! LOLWhat? I ever said a quarter point is a point, are currently high?I gotta reply to this since algofy is ***misrepresenting*** what the cme is stating. the cme is stating "0.25 index points".
Notice the word "point" is NEVER USED. It is referred to as "0.25 points"
Set my stop ONE POINT below my fill...try that algofy and let us know what happens. Ask your Mom if $12.50 (she's upstairs cooking you dinner) the same as $50??? Hey Newbies, algofy thinks $12.50 (a quarter point) is THE SAME as a point ($50.00). algofy is not ready for prime time.
Newbies, notice the multiple FCM links that I posted above that directly reference "handles". No shame in using it when it applies.
Seeya !!