MaxDD<Annual Return isnt much of a feat. I know plenty of guys who are running 3-10x their risk(maxDD) year after year. You are not going to find those guys showing docs or audited returns because there is no incentive for them to do so.
Trading, Taking and Income, and Capital Requirements
- Thread starter raVar
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MaxDD<Annual Return isnt much of a feat. I know plenty of guys who are running 3-10x their risk(maxDD) year after year. You are not going to find those guys showing docs or audited returns because there is no incentive for them to do so.
Well, we probably would probably come to agree and disagree. But on minor points really.
On one hand, the AM in me thinks: If it's not audited third-party, then it never happened.
But then again, you and I could probably name 30 guys without thinking hard, in Closed Off Private Prop structures ... doing the above. But these are insanely talented people.
One point where might agree to disagree ... is that there is massive incentive to demonstrate that ability, if you can do so at scale. One would think Accredited Investors and Q.E.P.'s are intelligent about DD's ... but they are just as susceptible to becoming unhinged at the slightest amount of DD as your newbie trader. If you can demonstrate linearity ... (and of course, do so in size) ... they keys of the kingdom would be yours from an AM standpoint. I mean ... FoF's get that Capital, for that very reason of linearity.
Regardless ... even if that is the case? Again, to the OP regarding new traders?
They're just not going to be able to do that, and pull an income ... on a measily $25,000.00.
On a related note, I think one of the most interesting quirks in Finance at the moment ... is how Open Prop Shops are teasing newbie traders with that very paradigm and contradiction.
"Come trade for us! (As we arb fees off of you!) We'll train you! Oh, you "didn't make the cut of a ridiculous standard? Pay us to take the test again!"
It's literally teasing them with the highest form of trading possible, with an impossible dream, while arb'ing fee's out of them.
LOL
OPM isn't a goal for everyone. Not everyone is motivated by more money. Marginal utility kicks in at one point or another and there are riches to be had in a less stressful life, detached from benchmarks and constant industry dick measurement.
If someone is starting with 25k and expects to pull income the first few years they have already failed, there really isn't much to be said on that.
Can you turn that 25k into 250k in a few years and then start pulling income. Certainly. Having said that, IMO you should pursue other careers unless your edge is that powerful.
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Oh, absolutely agreed on every point.
The reason the topic came up was to address points made by some posters, then to take some the best traders on the Planet in AM (I did specify the Alts, but one could just as easily go to Barclay Hedge) as stated was not to say: "They can't do on a small amount, so neither can you", but instead ... to demonstrate skill (whatever the level) ... then get those individuals who had asked those questions to run the math on $25,000.00; and ask themselves about their own skill level, and could it even begin to approach those AM Drawdown numbers?
It's to highlight the contrast, so math can be done leading to the discussion of what is a reasonable expectation for those posters that asked about it
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Everyone is different, I only need $1000 per month at the moment for expenses + fun, got a frugal life style, I can and do make $1000 in a week fairly easily, don't need more than 3K in the account as that's margin covered for $10 per pt and some slack.
100pt YM move in and hour or so and I'm golden.
But you've got to be a good trader, if your not a good trader then 25K, 2Mil your always going to lose it.
100pt YM move in and hour or so and I'm golden.
But you've got to be a good trader, if your not a good trader then 25K, 2Mil your always going to lose it.
I can only hope that my trading profits will continue a few more years while I pull 50% of my profits to supplement my social security. I do not even need 3k a month, because of my reverse mortgage. If I were to take to heart the facts and figures in this thread then I should just quit. I do not even want to disclose my capital that I trade with... out of embarrassment. I do not even trade the MNQ with 10% of 150k
Es
Es
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Absolutely not mate.
That was not my intention whatsoever; to make you feel as if you didn't have enough to begin trading. And you should never worry about where you're starting out. There is an old Semetic Proverb that says: "Do not despise the day of small beginnings". Don't let it get in your head. I started trading decades ago, but when I began, I blew up two or three accounts. As did almost EVERY single professional trader I can think of.
I don't care if a person has $1,000.00. What rallymode stated above is 1,000% on point. You can start out with a small amount. Grind for a while, get it up, add capital to you as you can, compound that, grind for a while longer, and get it to a higher level. And then from there, springboard into other things.
I know half a dozen guys that started out small, and did what rallymode suggested above. You have $1,000? Good for you, and hope you do well with it. Sincerely.
My point, was to dissuade people from getting $25,000, quitting their job and their income and then trying to trade and live on that $25,000.00.
THAT ... is a recipe for disaster.
Getting to $25,000 ... and then adding capital along the way to compound your gains as you get them? Get to $50,000? Hone your skill? Definitely a viable path; and one many have taken.
My journey to full time trader was hell, But made it at last, once you are not greedy, and depending how disciplined you are, you can use accumulating strategy. I traded a lot for people bank then till I earn enough to start on My own, And then private firm, just last in August I opened a personal account of less than 200 pounds to see if i can still stress myself with low deposit, and my accumulating strategy, it was actually fun, but note I do not use same strategy on the large capital I manage now privately, But the account was started with 50k and now over 678k by accumulations
Wow...I an not that good of a trader to turn 200 pounds into 678k in a little over a year. I do not ramp up my trades so quickly. I just need a few hundred a month to supplement my Social Security. Sure I can spend more... can't we all? But I do not have any credit card debt or other bills (the Hummer was paid off years ago) other than the utilities and groceries. I find myself creating needs and projects to trade towards their fullfillment. This is what drives me.
I hate to travel but Wifey goes to Sweden each year...I stay at home with the animals.
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I hate to travel but Wifey goes to Sweden each year...I stay at home with the animals.
Es
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Forget this user. He is one of the @destriero types. Perhaps even the same user behind different handles. They push some crap ideas, when others check them on facts they get blocked and put on ignore. After all you can see, he succeeded and reeled in his fellow group of want-to-get-rich crowd that intently listens to apostles like him. I had to log out to read his posts here and it was just weird bla. In other threads he first strongly supported pro-rata order algorithms and in another thread strongly opposed them. This guy knows a thing or two of financial markets, more than most, but either he is purposely deceptive and aiming at some unethical stuff or he just messed up and killed his career and now needs to share bla with anyone who wants to listen. He also started a trading strategy journal where he never discussed a single inch about a trade. But he got the same disciples surround him that intently listen to his posting of $ signs and the more digits the number the better...