Trading only career that doesn't require people?

[vulture]

I would agree with Cash on this one...I thought it over for a few minutes, and although I could come up with careers that are very similar as pertains to dependency on others, nothing was really equivalent...I thought of professional golf(at the mini tour level) free of big endorsement deals, few pro-ams, not too many celebrity invitations, and that is a pretty nomadic existence...Get into your car and drive across the country staying in Super 8 Motels(if you are lucky and can afford it) while going out day to day and playing just the course...But, then I figure, you still have to have a caddie, so that takes that one away...You could also argue that a pro tennis player, pro surfer, etc, etc has that same level of independence and no need to ever "sell" their services...However, as they become more successful, there is more pressure from their sponsors to adapt a specific personna and to play by the rules of the game...So that kinda knocks those out of the competition as well...After all, a successful trader is not going to attract any favorable press unless, of course, they want that attention...

For me, personally, the most liberating aspect of trading is that I do not have to get up every day and partake in alot of the bs'ing involved with "selling" widgets...There is a great freedom to being able to talk to others from a fairly objective stance and to not have the need to ever sell anything...I also think it is fair to say that after awhile of doing this and having given up that kind of lifestyle, the greatest fear is ever having to return to it...

 

[skerbitz]

computer programmer ...

what other profession has such a bad rep for poor social skills ...

speaking as a long time programmer, it's not unusual to sit in front of the computer thinking and talking only to yourself for days/weeks/months, especially if you work for a govt agency like I did.

yes, yes you can make some arguments for interaction with others but having done both (trading and programming) the social interaction levels are much the same IMO.

 

[stock777]

Originally posted by cashonly


Hmmm... we may have a winner here. I don't see any people interaction required. But, are there any players that consistentently make money doing it? It's gotta be something where you can actually make a living. I really don't know enough about it to say, myself.

Yeah, there are, but not many. As it turns out , many of the best and biggest players bet from remote (simulcasting) sites that give them an extra edge in the form of rebates on their handle. Sort of like the liquidity rebates you get from ECN's.

Can't really say how many folks make a decent living playing horses, or gambling on anything, since there are no reliable studies. Do we know how many there are in the stock world? (Money Managers, Brokers, and other OPM specialists don't count )

 

[alanm]

Originally posted by TraderX64

Exactly why I trade..got tired of having other people involved in order to make my living. Now I rely on myself only for my mistakes and accomplishments..

Ditto. The quick and objective response of the market to your decisions is a refreshing change from the drudgery of having to wade through meetings with superiors and employees, only to end up with the inevitable resulting mediocrity of their efforts (at best).

I don't agree that this is a non-social practice, though. I have to interact with trading support people routinely, and my profitability is definitely affected as a result. Discussions on message boards such as this could be considered social as well, and they do have some effect on our trading.

Someone suggested that professional BJ playing is a non-social experience. That's dead wrong, particularly if you want to make more than about $10/hour. Casinos do not want you to consistently take their money. The technical skill to do so is easily learned and practiced - 99% of the work in profiting by it is "social engineering".

Yes - there are people who arb horse races for a living. My proximity to Hollywood Park has resulted in a couple of introductions. Those I have met are not living particularly well off their efforts.

 

[rs7]

Originally posted by alanm


Yes - there are people who arb horse races for a living. My proximity to Hollywood Park has resulted in a couple of introductions. Those I have met are not living particularly well off their efforts.

No surprise here....20% rake plus breakage! 5 races and the track has taken 100% of the handle of one race. Tough odds to buck! Easier to make a living buying out of the money options or lottery tickets....with less second hand cheap cigar smoke

 

[cashonly]

Originally posted by skerbitz
computer programmer ...

what other profession has such a bad rep for poor social skills ...

speaking as a long time programmer, it's not unusual to sit in front of the computer thinking and talking only to yourself for days/weeks/months, especially if you work for a govt agency like I did.

yes, yes you can make some arguments for interaction with others but having done both (trading and programming) the social interaction levels are much the same IMO.

Did you just walk into the govt agency and start programming or:
Did you have to interview for the position with someone (maybe many people)?
Did you have someone give you an assignment? (and what happens if you told them you didn't want to do that, but wanted to do something else?)
Do you have to report to someone on your progress (either in person or through a reporting system)?
Does someone expect you to produce a deliverable within a certain time? (and what happens if you don't?)
Will someone have to apporve your deliverable?

Sounds like a LOT of dependency to me.

 

[cashonly]

Originally posted by Bob777
Internet sales.

I will admit that there there may be no direct interaction, but through your marketing efforts, you still have to CONVINCE people to come to your website and submit an order.

In trading, you can just take the ask or hit the bid (maybe not necessarily your style, but works for some) - no CONVINCING of someone else to but the bid or ask out there required.

 

[vikana]

Originally posted by cashonly
After having done time in retail, marketing, corporate, etc. I believe that trading is the only career where you don't have to deal with people or convince them to sell your product.

Cash,
that's exactly the analysis I did in the mid 90s when I was trying to plan my "exit strategy" from the corporate world.

Only downside I've found is that it at times is a bit lonely. Message boards and chats make up for that. But when I was at the office I used to complain about all the idiots I had to deal with. My solution: My wife now knows much more about trading than she ever hoped to !

While I don't use it much, I do like the freedom to go to the beach in the afternoon in the summer. I'm on the central CA coast ... have to enjoy life, too.

Real-estate is also a viable option, but generally require more funds and a longer time frame until you see the returns.

 

[darkhorse]

All professions that depend on service or customer contact in any way shape or form have a sales aspect. If your livelihood is linked to playing nice, you have to play nice.

Trading and individual professional sports are unique disciplines in that they do not require selling or cooperative exchange. Traders makes use of brokers and clearing firms, solo sport athletes make use of coaches and the media- but the relationships are distinctly one sided. Consider the bee and the flower. The bee can treat the flower like crap, but the flower will take it because it needs the bee's business. Not a perfect analogy by any means, but the point is that the other party needs you more than you need them, negating the need to sell/convince/suckup in any way shape or form..

I was attracted to trading because of the sheer elegance. Even as a kid I was more interested in hacking through the gordian knot than untying it. I wanted to run my own show from the start, but the idea of rent, employees, inventory, payroll etc. etc. disgusted me even at age twelve. Too mundane, too much boring paperwork. I remember wishing there was a way I could make a living just by thinking. Halfway through college I came across 'the investment biker' by Jim Rogers, and my professor ideas went right out the window.

What other business offers a pure meritocracy with no employees, no selling and negligible overhead? Where else can you give yourself a raise every year through compounded gains? Where else can you take a few years of tuition and convert them into decades of positive cash flow? Where else can you take on investors and expand your gains with minimal expansion of effort?

 

[cashonly]

Originally posted by darkhorse
Trading and individual professional sports are unique disciplines in that they do not require selling or cooperative exchange. Traders makes use of brokers and clearing firms, solo sport athletes make use of coaches and the media- but the relationships are distinctly one sided. Consider the bee and the flower. The bee can treat the flower like crap, but the flower will take it because it needs the bee's business. Not a perfect analogy by any means, but the point is that the other party needs you more than you need them, negating the need to sell/convince/suckup in any way shape or form..

Individual sports is definitely in the running. But as Iron ("big bite") Mike demonstrated, you still have to play nice or they won't let you play. However, if a trader got kicked out of one trading room for being too obnoxious, he could go to another. In the same vein, Iron Mike got kicked out of Nevada, but there are plenty of states that have given him an invite.