Trading needs the same "revolution" that martial arts went through 15 years ago

Quote from Cutten:

So how come Fedor (Sambo/Judo) thrashed Noguiera (BJJ) so hard? And everyone else for that matter.

Also, I thought the post was about fighting. MMA is a sport, like boxing. It's not the type of fight you would ever get in the real world. A bit like paper trading vs real trading. When they have ring fights where people pull guns, knives, outnumber someone 4 to 1, sucker punch people, or call the cops, then it might be more like real life.
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Exactly. In the real world, if you're jumped by someone in a dark alley the LAST thing you want to do is go rolling around on the ground with 'em. What if he has a knife, what if the ground is covered in broken bottles or other debris, what if there is more than one assailant?

This isn't meant to defend forms-only martial training (on the contrary, IMO if you don't spar then you're not practicing *martial* arts), but I get so damn sick of hearing how MMA/BBJ/groundfighting crap is somehow more "real" than non-ground fighting systems. In a real-world situation, you almost always want to dodge, throw a couple punches, then run like hell. In a real world situation, the last thing you want to do is roll around on the ground hugging the guy, hoping he doesn't have any buddies that will walk over and kick you in the head.
 
Quote from Cutten:

No - good traders trade, because most of the time it makes a lot more money with a lot less hassle than them trying to charge students for advice.
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Agreed. While the thread is interesting & informative, the linkage to trading is weak.

A great fighter and a lousy fighter both need to generate funds since the actual fighting doesn't do this (except possibly at the highest levels). Teaching others puts food on their table & coin in their pocket.

In trading, the lousy trader can't generate enough coin from trading to feed his family or fill his pockets, so he teaches others to fulfill those needs. The good trader trades to fulfill his financial needs. Teaching others is an unnecessary, frequently-frustrating distraction. Most only teach on an exception basis - family, friends, improve karmic debt, etc ....

R
 
Quote from LodeRunner:

Exactly. In the real world, if you're jumped by someone in a dark alley the LAST thing you want to do is go rolling around on the ground with 'em. What if he has a knife, what if the ground is covered in broken bottles or other debris, what if there is more than one assailant?

This isn't meant to defend forms-only martial training (on the contrary, IMO if you don't spar then you're not practicing *martial* arts), but I get so damn sick of hearing how MMA/BBJ/groundfighting crap is somehow more "real" than non-ground fighting systems. In a real-world situation, you almost always want to dodge, throw a couple punches, then run like hell. In a real world situation, the last thing you want to do is roll around on the ground hugging the guy, hoping he doesn't have any buddies that will walk over and kick you in the head.
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While I agree with the original post have studied some traditional martial arts compared to realistic self defense if BJJ is so superior why isn't it the main method of attack and defense for Special Forces, DOD, CIA, FBI, etc. Yes they study it, but those folks learn to take ppl. out in a the fewest hits.

If I feel an imminent threat why would a system based on cage fighting and rules? I would rather head butt the opponent than go for some submission hold. Have you ever seen a fight where someone got headbutted, end of fight. The sheer weight of the head is so much greater than a fist open or closed. Some of the ppl. I grew up with just liked to fight. They never took any training, but they knew how to get down and dirty fast and not mess around. One of the guys was all state wrestler. He would takle ppl. and then cheap shot. That's the real world unfortunately.

I would rather hit some in the neck and drop them then get them to tap out. A guy I worked with BB in Karate said he let someone practice a knife hand chop in dojo on him. Not even a full swing he woke up about 30 seconds later. He said most of the stuff in Karate would get you killed in a street fight. It's all kata, art and show.

I have the utmost respect for MMA guys, I love the UFC, I have been watching since the early days, but it's sport based fighting in a cage, hardly realistic. They can't knee to head on ground, hit back of head, etc, etc. If someone is trying to do you serious harm why fight with rules? The things that work in real fights are cheap shots based on gross motor movements not fancy holds and throws.

Street fighting is like trading it's gladiator mentality a lot of times.
 
Quote from IronFist:

I saw a video of two internal grandmasters fighting. It was really old and flickery because it was on film. I will see if I can find a link somewhere and post it.

It was HORRIBLE. I think one guy was a Hsing-Yi guy. It was basically two old men on a rooftop going around and trying to bop each other on the head.

This film was posted in traditional kung fu forums and people were marveling at the technique being displayed. I was like, are you kidding me? It was atrocious.



I do have this to say about kung fu, however. I studied Wing Chun for a while before I was enlightened to MMA. I have used a Wing Chun technique once to defend myself in a very small space when I was attacked out of the blue in a hallway. Wing Chun worked perfectly for that. However in the other 99% of possible fighting scenarios, I would do MMA and not Wing Chun. In fact, when I joined my first MMA gym, I tried Wing Chun techniques against boxers and was subsequently destroyed every time. But there was still no ego, everyone was cool. The instructor said "if you want to try something, here is the place to try it." I was so convinced that Wing Chun was a superior fighting art and maybe if I just trained a little harder I could beat the boxers. Nope. I was shown objective evidence that I was wrong, and I began learning boxing for MMA. I feel like a lot of traders are like that... "maybe if I just study Woodie's patterns a little bit harder I will become profitable." Nope. But feel free to continue losing money.

Oh and if you find a qualified teacher, some of the internal arts could possibly be beneficial for health.

But if you want to learn fighting, it's MMA or nothing.
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Every successfull trader I know , they know when they are wrong, and the sooner you know you are wrong about the stock market, the more money you make/save.

I have been daytrading proffesionaly for over 10 years. I have seen quite a many things and everything has changed... except the discipline and mentality a trader must keep in order to succeed.
 
The "revolution" happened some time ago. A new kid entered the octagon with his super computer and algos, lightening reflexes and ablility to emulate and beat every TA technique.

The result was the banks threw out their TA teams and the new kids took over. Then fancy pants designed derivatives of derivatives and algos ruled the market until someone realised that just like the Internet boom, trading empires have to be built upon sound fundamentals rather than pure greed alone.

But the new kid is here to stay and the next master will be the one who has the full contact algos and techniques to beat bear and bull markets.
 
"Have you ever seen a fight where someone got headbutted, end of fight. The sheer weight of the head is so much greater than a fist open or closed. Some of the ppl. I grew up with just liked to fight. They never took any training, but they knew how to get down and dirty fast and not mess around."


So true, if someone gets headbutted its over. Its a nasty move that works and is very difficult to block or even see coming (stand sideways to them like the British police are trained to do so they can't break your nose this way, or connect with other things).

Another street thing that works is to hit the guy while he is still talking or while you are still talking - even if you have to start saying something just so that you can do this. Actually very difficult for most people to do, and leads to a lot of fights being over before one of the combatents even knew it had come to a fight.


People who know what they are doing know that the one punch John Wayne fight doesn't exist - they follow through with multiple punches with the aim of getting the other guy on the ground so that they can kick him in the head - he can't reach them with his arm when he is on the ground. They probably learned the hard way that if you hit someone once John Wayne style he doesn't go down, he goes beserk and kicks the sh*t out of you. Interestingly, most fights end up with grappling on the ground - The clean Bruce Lee tyle fight is a myth on the sreets- 17th century rapier duels apparently ended up almost the same way.

One curious thing is the serious street fghters I knew NEVER got confused about friend or foe even when they had been drinking. if you knew them there was no danger of them going for you. They were never the idiots who got drunk and started on their friends. NEVER.

All this is from observation not participation BTW
 
Quote from RL8093:

Agreed. While the thread is interesting & informative, the linkage to trading is weak.

A great fighter and a lousy fighter both need to generate funds since the actual fighting doesn't do this (except possibly at the highest levels). Teaching others puts food on their table & coin in their pocket.

In trading, the lousy trader can't generate enough coin from trading to feed his family or fill his pockets, so he teaches others to fulfill those needs. The good trader trades to fulfill his financial needs. Teaching others is an unnecessary, frequently-frustrating distraction. Most only teach on an exception basis - family, friends, improve karmic debt, etc ....

R
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Another great post.

But the OP's point is well made.
 
Quote from IronFist:

I've been in martial arts circles almost my entire life. Here's a quick refresher. I'm sure you'll be able to drawl parallels to trading. If not, they're pointed out at the end.
super deadly techniques.
actually shoot fireballs, but they have to maintain and air of mysticism with their students or they will lose their guru status and their income)........................
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IF,

Oh dear, I see you are now deeply immersed at the frustration level ... good luck punching your way through it ... most people cannot and vent their frustrations in other ways.
Like starting ET threads "poor little me, it must be someone else's fault"

Harden up old son.

Perhaps if you focused your magnificent mind on the task at hand ( what makes the price move and how can I make it benefit me)
Perhaps if you focused on this instead of day dreaming, you might come to grips with trading.

If you ever want to involve yourself in bare knuckle fighting, simply open an account and begin trading ... with real money I mean.
The Market and the rapidly dwindling state of your account will be your Sensei and you as always, will remain the obedient pupil.

I will not wish you good luck instead I will wish you eventual success.
(Luck is yet another component of the great day dream)

regards
f9
 
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