Trading needs the same "revolution" that martial arts went through 15 years ago

Quote from swtrader:

i started reading it and quit after I scrolled down and saw how loooooong it is

way way way way way way toooooooo long

you need to learn to make your point without writing a fucking novel - analogies should always be SHORT
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It’s American style vs. Asian style writing.
 
I'm not much of a martial artist really but the little I do know was learned from Mercenaries..... it's nice and simple and direct, formless, stuff mixed with some Tai Chi... I'm very happy with it. The funny thing this thread made me realize is that my trading style has evolved to be nice and simple and direct, maybe there is a universal template for good things.. my photographic art has gone the same route too, nice, simple, direct pictures that tell either a story to me [preserve a memory] or tell a universal story that anybody can relate to....
 
Quote from sg20:

A year of training may be, but not 2 months and against opponents like Chuck Liddel (kick boxing), Cung Le (San Chou), and many great stand up fighters I don't think they have a chance. You point is well taken but even jujitsu alone can't fight a stand up fighter. Take Tito Ortiz for example, the guy couldn't beat anyone since Ken Shamrock; fighters have evolved. Just like a fighters, traders evolve with the market, it's always the quick to adapt that survives...
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What I meant was a 2 month MMA guy (muay thai and BJJ) could beat a 10 year Karate/TKD/kung fu/etc. guy.
 
I'll try to post some more vids later.

My whole point for this thread was people should stop listening to people who don't have a proven track record of knowing what they're talking about. Or at least stop putting faith in what they say. If they're unable/unwilling to clarify for you, they're probably full of shit, and if not, then they're just not willing to share with you, so move on.

You deserve better. If someone gives you a bullshit fortune cookie answer, call them on it. Don't sit there pondering the deep meaning of what the master is talking about for the next 2 weeks while you continue to make bad trades.

The same thing applies to dealing with salesmen. I often say to salesmen, after a long pitch, "but you didn't answer my question." And then I usually leave about 5 seconds later if the next words out of their mouths are not "the answer to your question is...".

To those of you who say it was long winded, it had to be to explain the subtle nuances of what I was talking about to people not familiar with the martial arts world. If everyone on here was a martial artist I could have said everything in one paragraph.


This post is to the point and direct. It is one of the best posts you will read on ET all year. You should bookmark it.
 
Quote from taowave:

D,
Thats interesting.How long did you give BJJ?

I have trained in BJJ,Karate,and Judo for the last 28 years and am now an investor in a BJJ school.The biggest mistake most schools make is throwing the white belts out on the mat too soon and bad pairing when rolling.You have to be careful who the "roid monkeys" are paired with..
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Absolutely agree.

I hate schools with the roided guys with huge egos. I've trained with roided guys who were humble, tho. They were cool.
 
Quote from IronFist:

I'll try to post some more vids later.

My whole point for this thread was people should stop listening to people who don't have a proven track record of knowing what they're talking about. Or at least stop putting faith in what they say. If they're unable/unwilling to clarify for you, they're probably full of shit, and if not, then they're just not willing to share with you, so move on.

You deserve better. If someone gives you a bullshit fortune cookie answer, call them on it. Don't sit there pondering the deep meaning of what the master is talking about for the next 2 weeks while you continue to make bad trades.

The same thing applies to dealing with salesmen. I often say to salesmen, after a long pitch, "but you didn't answer my question." And then I usually leave about 5 seconds later if the next words out of their mouths are not "the answer to your question is...".

To those of you who say it was long winded, it had to be to explain the subtle nuances of what I was talking about to people not familiar with the martial arts world. If everyone on here was a martial artist I could have said everything in one paragraph.


This post is to the point and direct. It is one of the best posts you will read on ET all year. You should bookmark it.
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oh wise one,

yes that's true

you're not the first one to ever say that, not even close

you just had the longest winded rehash of it

odd that express impatience with long winded salesman :confused:
 
I miss the competition of the training, but at 42 I don't think my joints would react as favorably to the multiple throws twice a week, mat or no mat. I practice once a month at 50%, with a BJJ friend, and that is enough... even at 50% we bloody noses and give cause to curse out loud. I stay hard and proficient with what I was taught, so I am happy with my state.
 
Quote from IronFist:

I've been in martial arts circles almost my entire life. Here's a quick refresher. I'm sure you'll be able to drawl parallels to trading. If not, they're pointed out at the end.

- Approx. 15+ years ago, there were tons of martial arts "masters" with their own schools (many of these instructors were fat and out of shape, but that's another story altogether).

- These "masters" told their students how "deadly" they were. The students had never actually seen their masters kill anyone, or even fight against a resisting opponent for that matter, but they were convinced they were super deadly, and that they were learning super deadly techniques.

- Students learned cool-looking 15-hit combos to counter a punch, but they didn't realize that their "opponent" was throwing a slow punch that wouldn't have hit the guy anyway and leaving his arm out there while his partner does the 15 hit combo. Student thinks he's a badass and develops false confidence. Student has never been in a fight or trained against a resiting opponent. Also, the instructors never actually spar with the students (cuz if a student won, the instructor's credibility would be lowered).

- Some claims were ridiculous; qi (internal energy) "masters" claimed they could knock out an opponent without even touching them! Students flocked to these teachers to learn this super deadly art.


- Approx. 15 years ago, no holds barred fighting tournaments began to gain popularity. In the beginning, a small number of contestants knew how to fight, and a huge number of contestants thought they knew how to fight (usually the ones with the "super deadly" teachers)

- In a very short period of time (relatively speaking), it is quickly and irrevocably established who knows how to defend themselves and who doesn't; what styles works and what styles don't.

- Now, all of the previous "masters" realize they're in trouble; they know they can't actually fight. They know they can't actually knock out people without touching them. They need to come up with ways to keep students (and therefore, income), but they would never actually step in the ring and try to prove they can fight (because they can't). So they come up with a brilliant line: "what we teach is too deadly for the ring."

- This continues to lure in some unsuspecting students, but more and more people are leaving these traditional schools to go study at schools run by champions and students of champions who have actually proven that they know how to defend themselves and who don't say "oh yeah I'm super deadly and can shoot fireballs. You better believe me. I'm super deadly."

- Occasionally, a match gets set up between one of these "super deadly no-hit knock out" guys and a real fighter (there are clips on youtube I can link if you want, some are hilarious, some are sad because you feel so bad for the charlatan... in some cases I think they were so brainwashed that they actually believed they could knock out an opponent without touching them), and the actual fighters always win decisively.

- Also occasionally, fights get arranged between super deadly fireball shooting ninjas and real fighters, but the super deadly fireball shooting ninjas come up with some excuse, or back out, as to why they can't actually fight.

- In 2008 it is pretty widespread knowledge about what works in combat and what doesn't. Why? Because people representing fighting styles that actually work who know what is up have put their money where their mouth is, and win every time. Even if you're totally unfamiliar with martial arts, a bit of research on the internet and you can find out what is up. It's pretty unanimous: if you want to learn how to fight, you study Boxing and/or Muay Thai and/or Brazilian Jujitsu. If you want to learn pretty moves but get your ass kicked in a fight, you learn just about anything else. This is (almost 100%) fact. There are 1000s of documented videos in public arenas showing this. People from these styles put their money where their mouth is every single time, and win every single time. Fireball shooting ninjas do not, and if they do, they make up excuses why they lost.

- Today, if someone wants to learn how to fight and how to defend themselves in realistic situations, they go find a school run by someone with a history of winning actual fights. They train realistically against resisting opponents who are trying to hit them back. I have personally seen people training for 2 months at a school like this repeatedly beat blackbelts/black sashes in karate, tae kwon do, kung fu, aikido, etc. with 10+ years of training over and over again.

- Good instructors spar with their students. Why? Because 99% of the time they will win anyway, and if not, they don't make bullshit excuses. The realize even the best lose some days and they don't care because they have the UFC record to prove that they are good (remember, the fake teachers never spar with their students because they are fat and out of shape and can't actually fight and can't actually shoot fireballs, but they have to maintain and air of mysticism with their students or they will lose their guru status and their income).




So how is this related to trading?

There's so much bullshit out there that doesn't work (:coughwoodiesCCIcough: ) yet they keep bringing in more and more students who lose money (get their asses kicked) yet who honestly thought they were learning something effective.

There are tons of people on this site who think they are gurus (invincible fireball shooting ninjas) but won't post a PnL statement (won't step in the ring to prove what they know).

Back in the day there were billions of instructional martial arts videos from every fireball shooting ninja style out there. Now there are almost none, because no one is interested in shit that doesn't work. Look at how many trading systems are for sale out there. None of them work. Yet people don't realize this yet.

The other thing I forgot to mention was, invincible fireball shooting ninjas loved answering questions with fortune cookie sounding bullshit. Why? Because a) it helped them sound even more like mythical legendary gurus, and b) they really didn't know the answer. Look at how much that happens here (or any trading forum). "Do what the price tells you to do." Uh, thanks.


Good martial arts schools produce champions who can fight. Good instructors have real experience from having been there. They don't fuck around brainwashing their students into being knocked out without even being touched.

Good traders produce PnL sheets before they start charging students and giving advice, and anytime during the instruction, as well.

Good martial arts instructors have no problem at any time reminding their students that they are a good teacher. They are 100% real and have no issues with it because it's true. Fake ninjas get pissed if you question their credibility because they have none.

Shitty trading gurus get pissed if you question their credibility because they have none.

A fake ninja showing his student a 15-hit counter to a shitty punch that is left with the arm extended is the same as showing someone how to trade in the middle of a chart. Real fighters know that you pull your arm back after a punch instantly (because leaving it out there = getting it broken).

Real instructors answer their students questions honestly and clearly, and say "does that make sense? Here, let me show you... see? You have to grab the elbow with your outside hand, otherwise you can't apply the choke. Here, you try. make sense now?" Fake ninjas give bullshit fortune cookie advice and get pissed if you question them.

Real traders answer clearly and with concrete examples. Fake trading gurus answer with fortune cookie bullshit. If asked "what do I do here?" They might say "do what the chart tells you to do." Thanks, guru! may i have some more kool-aid? Or, they might give you a long answer full of ambiguous babble and big words to try and sound smart. But don't question any of it. They are infallible. And if you don't understand it, the problem obviously lies with you. Just like the student who asks his deadly ninja sensei "can you really knock out an opponent without touching them???
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This is a great post!! Your analogy is spot on. I too follow mma (since UFC 1)
was interesting seeing all the long held beliefs of eastern style arts ... i.e....kung fu, karate, etc all fall completely apart to brazilian jiu jitsu... (which it in turn fell apart to modern mma)

Gurus are indeed like you discribed! Always adapting a new angle with jibberish speak to hook noobs.
 
Quote from swtrader:

odd that express impatience with long winded salesman :confused:
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My long windedness is full of facts and objective truth.

Salesmen long windedness is full of BS and garbage.

I directly answer questions (or I say "I don't know").

Salesmen give you doublespeak and circular reasoning.

:D
 
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