Trading indices at prop firm

Quote from hazardfish:

Why do you find it difficult to pick a direction of a stock? That's the easy part, most of the time, experience comes in to let you know when to take profits, or start pairing out of a trade. And using stops allows one to makes a dozen mistakes in one day, and with one winner, still make money.

It's an odds game with psychology, but every trading style takes experience with that style. Personally teaching what Don does works. Guys make money that way, but putting it on a pedestal is what's wrong with most firms in the first place.

They have a system and simply don't understand or know how to trade another way, so they train one way, and it works, they develop profitable traders, so they continue in this way.

So usually I find with these A types, they diss anything else, it often shows how closed minded they are. And/or that is their business philosophy, so they must continue to sell it as "THE" way to make money, which is just not the case, it's only one style.

There are hundreds of styles of trading that are profitable, and anybody who tells you otherwise is just full of it. And you have to now discount everything they say, no matter how concocted and difficult to understand.

That there in lies the gimmick, the edge, the power, the sophistication, the braggart with the know how,

I'm not dissing Don or anybody else for that matter, but the arrogance of knowing it all. That is what new traders and experienced traders alike have to be careful of and understand.

I see all the time one guy with a strategy who makes money, and is somehow consumed by his ego, and then talks down all other ideas or concepts.

I don't "talk down" anyone, and apologize if anyone takes it that way. From our perch, we see a lot of "styles" and "strategies" - all we try to do is offer suggestions based on the realities we have seen over the years....if someone has a great strategy, then please let us help make you more money by using ours.

For example, we have one trader in the Netherlands who has made $millions over the last 4 years...and I really have no real clue as to how he does it...I do know that he is generally hedged pretty well overnight and doesn't show up on our risk monitors... he wanted to take some time off...I suggested that he teach someone else what he was doing, he did, and now that guy is making mone for him....."if it works, keep doing it...don't listen to nay-sayers" ....

Don
 
Quote from Don Bright:
For example, yesterday one trader used $10million to go naked short on the opening (expiration day), he made $38,000 within an hour...so I guess his plan works....BTW, he's up a Half Million this year, and looking good to make a Mil...

All the best,

Don [/B]

Im not adding to the thread by any means but all I can say is WOW
 
Quote from FXTraderWill:

He does endorse directional trading; however, he only endorses trading the direction of a spread between two stocks. Why? Because when you trade spreads, you pay double the commissions. Bright already charges over twice what Schonfeld does; legging in and out of a spread with many thousands of shares at .004-.008 really brings Don the cash (not that I don't think it's fair; it makes complete sense for him, brom a business perspective). I do find it a little annoying, unprofessional, and perhaps even condescending to the experienced traders out there to try to propogate a myth that it's easier to find an edge in picking the direction of a spread between two stocks than it is to pick the direction of a single stock or a single ETF/futures contract is a little ridiculous. Personally, I believe figuring out if a single stock is going to make a move in reference to the US dollar is easier than figuring out in which direction a stock will move in reference to another stock, because I only have to follow one market in "risky directional gambles" as Don might call them... but to each his own...

Not trying to defend the Brights.... but based on the commissions you appear to pay on your PnL Thread posts, you are the last person I'd ever expect to see criticizing someone else's rates.

Or are you just hitting ECN's all day?
 
I see, okay I misunderstood, I thought you basicly pushed one style of trading and dissed the rest. That's great that you allow your traders the freedom to trade their own styles, and obvioulsy you have some incredible traders on board! Many firms only push one style, so it gets repetitive.

Can't you develop some software to mimic the trades of your better traders?) I think that's where the real money might be made:)
 
Quote from hazardfish:

I see, okay I misunderstood, I thought you basicly pushed one style of trading and dissed the rest. That's great that you allow your traders the freedom to trade their own styles, and obvioulsy you have some incredible traders on board! Many firms only push one style, so it gets repetitive.

Can't you develop some software to mimic the trades of your better traders?) I think that's where the real money might be made:)

Too many variables involved...I still maintain that the most valuable computer program is the one that stuck between a traders left ear and right ear, LOL.

We certainly do have some good programs to "help" with the speed of certain strategies, of course.

Don
 
Don, I've followed quite a few of your convos on this particular forum (Prop Firms). I've seen it before where you kind of dismiss ET'ers that make certain claims against Bright. But on this particular thread you've addressed just about every question or claim. Though I'm sure much of this is repetitive shit you've said time and time again on other threads, I do appreciate your taking the time to make things clear and state your opinion.
 
Quote from Verick:

Don, I've followed quite a few of your convos on this particular forum (Prop Firms). I've seen it before where you kind of dismiss ET'ers that make certain claims against Bright. But on this particular thread you've addressed just about every question or claim. Though I'm sure much of this is repetitive shit you've said time and time again on other threads, I do appreciate your taking the time to make things clear and state your opinion.

Thank you, it's always nice to hear something like that.

Don :)
 
Honestly i still dont get it how can people make money playing pairs cause at some point you have to load 1 side of the trade.
If pair trading was so good people would all be making million,s Hedge- funds etc
if i go long qqqq and short spy is that called a pair - ?
 
Quote from ksonsinc:

Honestly i still dont get it how can people make money playing pairs cause at some point you have to load 1 side of the trade.
If pair trading was so good people would all be making million,s Hedge- funds etc
if i go long qqqq and short spy is that called a pair - ?

A zillion hedge funds do pairs trading - Goldman has many groups using sophisticated software trading pairs...I don't see how the concept can seem alien, or even "new" for that matter. Regardless of anything else, my brother is one of the best traders on the planet, trading only our money (no investors or anything) and is actively trading about 200 pairs these days... I don't think he would be doing so if we weren't making good money. As I've said before, I'm glad he's trading a big chunk of my money as well, LOL.

It's nothing new: 20 year history here, for example.
http://www.melbournecentre.com.au/ResearchGrants/21.Chng_Discussion Paper.pdf


"Pairs-trading has at least a 20 year history on Wall Street. There are several reasons for its popularity. First, it is simple to understand and execute. And since it does not normally evoke frequent intraday trading, pairs-trading can be cost-feasibly automated. Second, cashflow and/or financial ratio based valuation models, which are potentially subjected to huge error margins, are not required. In pairs-trading, valuation is relative and the position is often near market-neutral. Lastly, it has sufficient flexibility to accommodate various investment styles e.g. pairs matched within sectors, size, index/non-index, growth/value etc."

Don
 
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