Trading in Brazil?

Quote from Cutten:

You have to remember, Brazil like most of Latin America (except Chile) is run by a grasping leftist political class who don't know the first thing about how to achieve progress in wealth or living standards. These are countries that can't even provide basic law and order, food and shelter for a large proportion of the population, and who confiscate foreign capital by the billions when their economically illiterate policies send them into yet another financial crisis.

Don't expect their policies on attracting tourist money or foreign business to make any sense.

It is not like SE Asia where the benefits of foreign investment and tourism are appreciated and broadly respected.

Brazil is a great country to visit (if you don't fall victim to crime), but living there you don't get the same rights you would in the west or even the far east.
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Cutten;
You have some good points about some grasping leftist political class;
Chile being a notable exception,
-Argentina & Uruguay are notable & safe exceptions also.

Some smart money in Argentina moved thier money to Uruguay;
actually most everone in Argentina & Uruguay loves North Americans & values tourism.

Interesting Gringoho mentioned Citibank, Bank of Boston;
like USA, some take Visa/mastercard, some dont ,
another one with many branches is ''ING '' bank/banco.

I like thier flags which have bands of blue;
and they have a yellow sun like this on them:cool: except with no sunglasses on flag:D

Smartmoney.com noted too many in Argentina are trying to retire at 55.

Most learned english in school but will not admit it, all know & respect english/spanish body language;
actually Argentina, Uruguay have a much higher literacy rate[ high 90s% in Spanish ] much higher than than USA. has in english.

I sat next to a Brazilian business consultant on AMR or Areolinias Argentinas jet;
& commented on just how highly people in Argntina & Uruguay respect manners like saying thank you/gracias.
Dont know portugese.

Brazil business consultant agreed & added;
yes ,they think YOU ARE VERY UNEDUCATED IF YOU DONT USE MANNERS!!!!!

Matter of fact lots in North America think the same way.


:cool:

Wisdom is the principal thing.
solomon, trader king
 
Nice thread you guys have going here.

I am looking to trade from Brazil for 3-6 months per year.

So far it seems that I will trading alone from an Apart-Hotel with in room DSL, but I would also consider sharing a small office and some DSL lines or cable modem lines with another trader or small group of traders.

I would like to trade from Rio, but I have been having a hard time finding a reasonably priced Apart-Hotel with DSL. Parthenon Aparts are first class but want like 5750 Reais per month in Ipanema or Arpoador (way to much for Brazil).

I may end up trading from Sao paulo since they have far more new buildings with DSL and actually cheaper than what I have found in Rio.

Curitiba or Florianopolis are other options.

If anyone wants do discuss forming a small trading group in Brazil or knows of any good Apartments or Hotels in Rio with high speed DSL private message me.
 
Quote from MiamiBeach:

Nice thread you guys have going here.
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I may end up trading from Sao paulo since they have far more new buildings with DSL and actually cheaper than what I have found in Rio.

Curitiba or Florianopolis are other options.
If anyone wants do discuss forming a small trading group in Brazil or knows of any good Apartments or Hotels in Rio with high speed DSL private message me.
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Curitiba is the only "modern city" in Brazil with really good infrastructure. Rio is amongst the 3 most dangerous crime-ridden cities in the world - possibly #1 in murders. Floripa is "half german" but with the amendeties of southern Brazil ... :) Sao Paulo is just - everything.

You better rent an apartment or house and then have a DSL line or cable installed.

80% of Brazil's coastline are beaches - so you shouldn't be limited to such a narrow minded view including only Ipanema and Copacabana - also the most crime ridden beaches. Girls are everywhere - don't worry....
 
Quote from Gringinho:

Also, the current banking laws and services in Brazil makes you think of really heavy marxist regimes. The bureaucracy here in Brazil is huge - amazingly huge - and probably a way of keeping the unemplyment lines thin.

Public services and banks are in dire need of reforms and badly needed efficency improvements. E.g. to do a SWIFT transfer it is impossible to do over any internet banking facility; neither Bradesco - the country's largest private bank nor HSBC - "the world's local bank" are any different in this respect. You need to spend a hefty time waiting to talk to a "gerente"/manager to do it and you need the signatur of various people. It's very frightening if you are accustomed to any efficient banking practices.

If you move money into the country with the notion of moving it out again - think again! A lot of stories of the central bank confiscating foreigners money. The rules are diffuse - sometimes hard to find - and few people speak good english. Some fairly good standards of publishing information on the Internet is virtously present in many of the ministeries e.g http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br - if you are into portuguese legalese.

Even in Morumbi - the business district of Sao Paulo - I spent at least 90 minutes with head managers to explain to them how to do a "online VISA transaction" - by the way - the only "failsafe" way of moving money quickly. This way I could move "unlimited" large sums with a administrative cheque or cash (albeit only with Bradesco - most banks have a USD 5000 equivalent limit withdrawal per day set by the central bank). To withdraw sums over R$ 1000 (reais - local currency - roughly USD .32 per R$ 1) - you have to pre-order money 3 days in advance. If you are a Bank of Boston or Citibank customer - you can find agencies in the south of Brazil which are a bit more helpful.

With some ATMs - like "24h Banking ATM's" you can get around the R$ 1000 withdrawal limit per day. E.g Amex Platinum/Gold and some nice limit will let you do various R$ 2000 withdrawals. Otherwise the VISA+passport and some hefty explaining of the VISA system to the local bank manager might get you lucky - albeit only in Bradesco or Citibank (perhaps Bank of Boston) as far as I know.

My view is that although Sao Paulo (and adhering surroundings - part of Grande Sao Paulo) is a whopping 24 million people - the bank agencies and the whole infrastructure reminds one of a frail village's weak infrastructure - only mulitplied - replicated many times over. Things work the same in the big city - even the most posh business district - only with duplications all over the place.

On another note - if you love pizza - like I do - this will be your worst nightmare - as it seems noone knows how to make a good pizza - neither the italian style nor the thick-dough one(which is a little harder to find).

I have not had any big problems involving money here - but that's because I haven't made the mistake of moving anything significant into the country - except for my car and house (roughly USD 150 000). Taxation is lax -and it seems most don't pay any - except for a socially unjust sales tax (ICMS) which makes it tough when a third of the country's population lives on roughly 1 USD per day. Ignorance and corruption is rampant - and sometimes you hear how it's all the financial speculant's faults - even textbooks in schools and TV educational programs blame "foreign speculants", europeans and americans for the misery in the country. With only 4 hours of rather weak school hours per day - even high school - and hilarious multiple choice school tests it is further compunding the impression of a struggeling country with a tough foreign debt future. I think it was something of the equivalent of USD 5000 in debt per person (USD denominated debt). If they could manage to do the same as asian countries did and renominate this debt into local currency they might be better off.

It is also extremely difficult with regards to financing - and the interest rates are among the highest in the world - well surpassing 100% per year. There is no way to valuate one's house to refinance - only car's which have a fixed semi-valuation by a regulated list (FIPE) of used car's value.

So for those looking to stay for a while I think the best option is renting everything - except if you look into speculating with regards to the highly unstable local currency and inflation hikes. Renting would also ease exposure to the red tape juggernaut.

Buying anything from abroad is not an option - a "little flat 60%" on imported goods - including freight - makes sure of that. So make sure everything is wrapped in gift paper and is boxed as new when you get presents from friends or family - although parcels may take up to 2 months - read: christmas presents.

If you like Soviet-style "bread-queues", then you're in luck. Otherwise, there's always the dirty money route with bribeing your way through - and it seems moral conscience is not the strongest nor most valued perk around here.

PS. All (or most?) telephone calls are recorded - but ony released to police when a judge ok's it. A kind of different view on privacy laws here ... Remember - torture in prisons was made illegal only a few years ago. It's a new democracy with a recent military dictatorship history - a lot of "king of the hill" mentality with public servants, and frequent strikes by police, immigration officials and other public workers. If you're a US citizen - do not give the immigration officials the finger when they take your photo as part of the US-tit-for-tat-game - as those have been fined around USD 100 000 and deported after a night in jail - in higly publicized and gloating news reports. Also - around 600 000 people have been assassinated in the last 20 years here. That's a number higher than some of the world's wars. Other than that it's all sun and beaches - with one eye watchfully alert.
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Thanks for the objective report. Are you in Brazil, and it there are so many bad things, why are you staying in Brazil as opposed to other places. Overall, would you recommend it? thx!
 
Quote from MiamiBeach:


I would like to trade from Rio, but I have been having a hard time finding a reasonably priced Apart-Hotel with DSL. Parthenon Aparts are first class but want like 5750 Reais per month in Ipanema or Arpoador (way to much for Brazil).

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Could everyone please give approximate cost in $$. Thx! :)
 
Quote from Baruch:

And what about Cuba?
Very cheap. No crime. Hot babes. Fine cigars. Fine Rum. Good doctors. Stability. And very few people from U.S.
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Is this a joke or his Cuba the new place to be if your an American?
:confused:
 
Gringinho...

It's funny how one can go into making quick judgements about a country.

You should wait some more time there before giving your opinion like you're an expert on the subject Brazil.

Your opinion is the same as some people thinking that the US is paradise and others suggesting is hell...
 
baruch is right on about cuba. to add to his comments...the scuba diving and fishing are also fantastic. the people love americans and their USdollars.
unfortunately i don't know this first hand. just from pics from my few friends who were able to get in from the usa via either canada or mexico.
i would really like to get there before Fidel passes and it opens up to all americans. heck, you don't even have to change your currency as they only use USD$ and it's like a time warp back to the 50's with all of the old american cars and cheap prices.
 
Quote from ccasadei:

Gringinho...

It's funny how one can go into making quick judgements about a country.

You should wait some more time there before giving your opinion like you're an expert on the subject Brazil.

Your opinion is the same as some people thinking that the US is paradise and others suggesting is hell...
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this is your opinion right?
 
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