Trading for a Low-Paying Living

[FuturesTrader71]

I understand and appreciate your examples regarding the hobbies that you developed into something more. My point was that trading on global exchanges does not lend itself to this kind of exploration without hefty costs. With piano, you didn't have to go in on your first day and compete with professionals. Same with tennis. But in trading, there is no exchange for starters. There is just sim trading. Hence, when one starts to think about possibly trading, they should consider that this is a serious decision and can be very costly.

That was my point. Trading is just not something one can dabble into as a hobby and find rewarding. It must be viewed as a business if the intention is to get ahead in it. I believe the attitude that "hey, it would be fun to try it" is what results in the huge failure rate. I think having a very high failure rate makes sense in this type of venture.

I'm glad you have achieved your goals and live the lifestyle you desired. I hope you continue to trade well.

 

[FuturesTrader71]

Quote from GetWhatUDeserve:

[...]Obviously your position, from your post, is you must trade in an office (the wife and kids running around comment above), and there "is no place for starting....traders on the major exchanges."

I did work for an arb firm for two years, and that was the expectation. Its absolutley NOT necessary to be in an office to be a phenomenal trader. In fact, if you are a good trader, you will be better than 90% of everyone else in that office, so why hang around their hangups? You can lease a small office near your home or create and environment inyour home to trade. If you are a good manager, then likely your wife and kids won't be running around bothering you while you trade at home either.

I want to go on, but I respect your perspective for what it is. You are a prop firm owner, as you mentioned eariler, so you have certain beliefs about what it takes to make it your way. So many woudl be helped if they understand they don't have to do it that way, and there are more complete, even if slower, methods of developing their trading skills than the one path you elude to.

You may recall that we talked one time on the phone. I had just left a prop firm (yes I failed there). I recall you mentioning that you ahve traders move to chicago in order to trade. Well, obviously, that won't work for those who live in other areas of the country, and to be honest, Chicago isn't really on the list of most desirable places to live in this country. So for the rest of us, that like the state where they live, see commuting as short term solution, and enjoy overall success, taking trading on as a hobby at first is likely one of the best long term success plans there is.
[...]

Actually my position is not that one has to trade from an office nor is it that traders have to move to a major financial center. My position is simply that when one attempts to trade and then find that it is something they want to make a "living" at (the thread topic), then this person must approach this as a business.

I trade from home now. I am in Chicago this week trading out of my office, but I moved away earlier this year. I find that one must make an extra effort to separate the home from the office, physically or psychologically, while trading out of a home office. This was my point. You can still run your trading business from home.... just do it like it is a business. This means have a plan just like a business would so that goals, responsibilities, risk and money management are defined clearly.

That's all I'm saying. I think this was many ET'ers are doing anyway and they will profit from this sooner or later.

 

[Boy Plunger]

If i could get my chesapeake to stop the puppy face and leaning his muzzle on my lap routine signaling he wants to play my productivity would increase but i guess we all make trade offs. I should be back in an out of home office by December because of a soon to expire 1031 exchange. Both have advantages for me i find. With a home office there is less unnecessary preparation but with an out of home office one could maintain a tighter regiment among other factors for both. In either setting you will work hard to make it strictly business. No drop ins or calls or chatter...only extreme focus and maintaining a constant state of readiness--that is if you are heavy that day. Some days are best spent brushing up on technique rather than actual trading but i guess this is different for everyone. Suffice to say that if you are a beginner and you have an opportunity to work for a firm and see how others fail and succeed you should welcome it with open arms. A generalization of course but i believe working your mirror neurons into proper management of learned behavior goes a long way and especially if you have access to people doing your line of work. Sorry for the extraneous material but i think some starting out could benefit from knowing this.

 

[64c2]

Cluseau -- some excellents points, thanks very much!

 

[nitro]

Quote from 64c2:

Cluseau -- some excellents points, thanks very much!

It is a good thing someone understand what the guy says - I have no clue - to me is sounds like this: Blah blaah blah, blaaahaablah, blah...

nitro

 

[Boy Plunger]

Quote from nitro:

It is a good thing someone understand what the guy says - I have no clue - to me is sounds like this: Blah blaah blah, blaaahaablah, blah...

nitro

Perhaps a doctor's visit can determine if you have ADD and are unable to concentrate on what seems to be your native language, English. We will wait to hear your results and will make the necessary adjustments to accommodate you. Until then, fuck off.

 

[TRADERguy]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Robert Green, a well-known accountant for traders, notes in the new (just got it today) September edition of ACTIVE TRADER magazine that (1) 64 % of the 1000 or so mark-to-market traders (trading for a living) he deals with LOST money in 2004; and (2) of those 36 % who made a profit, only 11% earned 50K or more. In other words, less than four percent actually made a real living (50K is not that much of a living, really).

Other than "Yipes!!," any thoughts or comments?

Sorry if the following point has already been addressed (I've only read pages 1 & 20 of this thread): at least for those that trade futures (not sure about the tax consequences in stock trading), those of us that plan on making a profit would never elect mark-to-market because it is disadvantageous for profitable traders. Therefor, the group of mark-to-market traders that Mr. Green refers to may be a self selected group of losers.

Cheers,

TRADERguy

 

[nitro]

Quote from Cluseau:

Perhaps a doctor's visit can determine if you have ADD and are unable to concentrate on what seems to be your native language, English. We will wait to hear your results and will make the necessary adjustments to accommodate you. Until then, fuck off.

I thought so...One more into the moron pile. It's uncanny how good I am getting at spotting them.

nitro