Trading for a living

My twonie (Cad$2 coin – with Polar bear) is there's a vast difference as Tomcole pointed out between a ‘work’ environment and being on one's own.

There will still be a ‘daily grind’ whether or not you are employed or self-employed. Starting your own business demands greater responsibilities than being an employee and you know the stats for new business failures.

You may however be in a ‘mid life crisis’.
Such crises occur at different ages to different people, affecting individuals to greater/lesser degrees. This life experience can lead to great new beginnings, residence in a different country, ‘doing what I’ve always wanted’, completely different career path, but at the worst a lengthy depression/s can occur when the ‘crisis’ phenomena/experience isn’t recognized for what it is –
“. . . a dangerous opportunity ” http://www.lessons4living.com/midlife.htm

If you are looking for an ‘alternative’ to your current situation/life then quitting your job and trading for yourself may not be a good idea, may in fact spiral you downward. It would be better to ask your employer for a 12 month leave of absence – once you’ve been able to determine IF you are experiencing m-lc, researched the subject, created a ‘map’, and included your wife in the mapping.
 
Quote from tomcole:

To the original poster-

Most bank traders flame out early when they go out on their own.

The problem is -

1. You're used to catching small pops, not using your own money and feel like you're part of "the market". The first time you lose real money, you'll fold like a cheap suit and not be able to function because the $20-30Gs you just lost means a new car or vacation to you. Its not some nebulous number your boss breaks your nuts about. Your "supportive" wife wont be amused when you tell her to stop shopping or spending either.

2. Your bank provides a wealth of benefits, from insurance to meals to tickets. These non-cash bennies probably add 30%+ to your salary. You get zippo here.

3. Brokers now kiss your butt, here, brokers laugh at you.

4. Traders at top tier firms who talk to you, wont even acknowledge you, much less tip you on resting orders.

5. And, dont take this the wrong way, but if after 20 years of trading for any bank and making the money you claim, if you only have 2 years expenses and $75Gs tucked away, you're not very good at making money or financial management.

6. Expect a few years of losses until you re-train to trade like an indie or upstairs local or whatever you want to call it.

7. Lastly, if you flame out, no bank will hire you back.

Of course, if you succeed and make millions and millions, as you expect now, I'll admire you and say that you're the 5% of traders who suceed and hopefully you'll throw some ideas to me.

Whatever you decide, good luck, and dont discount the bennies you now have, the life you now have and your job. You spent a long time building your life and career, dont throw it all away because you're upset by the grind or your boss. Be rational in your decision.

Feel free to PM , you may not like the advice, but I did it and regret it.
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These are all very good points

My finanaces are in order, my kids education money is put aside,
I have enough in retirement accounts that i would not have
to add any to be able to retire in 15 to 20 years very comfortable.
My house is paid off. My 2 cars are paid off. I have summer
place paid off. MY wife stays home. I am a very lucky person.

I only need about 40% of what I make right now to live on.
So I have gotten my financial situation in order just in case
my luck runs out.

Also if I had expectations of making a million i would have already
quit. I would be happy to make 50k in my first year. Trading
for someone and trading for yourself are like nite and day.
 
Quote from Wallace:

My twonie (Cad$2 coin – with Polar bear) is there's a vast difference as Tomcole pointed out between a ‘work’ environment and being on one's own.

There will still be a ‘daily grind’ whether or not you are employed or self-employed. Starting your own business demands greater responsibilities than being an employee and you know the stats for new business failures.

You may however be in a ‘mid life crisis’.
Such crises occur at different ages to different people, affecting individuals to greater/lesser degrees. This life experience can lead to great new beginnings, residence in a different country, ‘doing what I’ve always wanted’, completely different career path, but at the worst a lengthy depression/s can occur when the ‘crisis’ phenomena/experience isn’t recognized for what it is –
“. . . a “dangerous opportunity” ttp://www.lessons4living.com/midlife.htm

If you are looking for an ‘alternative’ to your current situation/life then quitting your job and trading for yourself may not be a good idea, may in fact spiral you downward. It would be better to ask your employer for a 12 month leave of absence – once you’ve been able to determine IF you are experiencing m-lc, researched the subject, created a ‘map’, and included your wife in the mapping.
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Wallace I have no doubt that this is part of what I am going through, that is why I am not going to rush into anything.

The other issue is I love trading and hate that I only get to
keep a small % of the money I make.
 
Quote from Lon Eagle:

You will be able to get tight prices in all market conditions as brokers fall over themselves to win business from people they think are bound to fail.
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I assume you are referring to spot forex brokers (FXCM, Oanda, RefcoFX, Man, etc), as in currency futures it's just another contract.

Why would anyone prefer those spot forex brokers, over the transparency and -nowadays- decent liquidity of CME currency futures?

I've looked into those spot fx deals on several occasions since 1998 (when there was no globex currency futures) and right now I can think of no advantages in using spot forex.

Only reasons would be:

1. Small account, as CME futures are over 100k
2. Trading of "strange" currency pairs

Am I missing something?
 
Quote from Nana Trader:

Are you a recent college graduate kido? :D
How about a job at local starbuck, i'll make
sure visit you for a coffee drink
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ehehe....you have no shame do you? Just keep on posting; there is no end to the humor in your english grammar

Here, i'll try and correct you so you can learn.

"How about a job at (A) local startbuck(S) (insert period or ; if you prefer) i'll make sure (I) visit you for a coffee drink."

Judging by your grammar, you might not be a recent college graduate, or a graduate of anything. God forbid you encounter any pre-schoolers on your way to starbucks; they might not understand you unless they got their little ESL decoder ring from their Lucky Charms box.
 
Quote from mtzianos:

I assume you are referring to spot forex brokers (FXCM, Oanda, RefcoFX, Man, etc), as in currency futures it's just another contract.

Why would anyone prefer those spot forex brokers, over the transparency and -nowadays- decent liquidity of CME currency futures?

I've looked into those spot fx deals on several occasions since 1998 (when there was no globex currency futures) and right now I can think of no advantages in using spot forex.

Only reasons would be:

1. Small account, as CME futures are over 100k
2. Trading of "strange" currency pairs

Am I missing something?
More...

No, you're absolutely right. And even "small account" traders should heed your comments. What's the point, much less advantage, of trading small (or at any level at all) with a bucket shop, which is what many (or most) spot FX dealers are? If you're any good, the spot dealer will job your orders and account, and if you're a poor trader, you'll lose without the dealer's boost. Might as well lose in a game that isn't rigged against you, I say.

My opinion that FX spot dealers are bucket shops is drawn from my experience with one of them, plus posts from veteran members of this board. I cannot say for sure that a novice or small trader cannot find an honest spot dealer. But without question the spot game is easily rigged against the individual customer. Caveat emptor.
 
gwac,

i think the #1 question to ask yourself, is could you handle 6 months in a row, or 1 full year whereby IF you are fortunate you are only break even each month? you might say "yeah i can handle that" ... but wait for the true experience and living it. it is one heck of a ride and learning experience about yourself.

you say you have 75k to live on and that is awesome but that is not the issue. self worth will become your daily battle. you are not going to have a salary regardless of your trading results. you might be in your mid 40s, and your yearly income might be 20K if your good for the first few years. can you deal with that?

i would think those are some key questions, and topics to think about. these are the main issues that came up for me when i went full time as a trader in 2000.

oh yeah, have someone you can call and talk to on a daily basis, as you will need it when you have breakeven / losing days, or frustrating days... and these days will be many. i was fortunate to have my father ... who has been in this business since 1966.

all the best,
patrickq
 
Quote from EchoPatrick:

gwac,

i think the #1 question to ask yourself, is could you handle 6 months in a row, or 1 full year whereby IF you are fortunate you are only break even each month? you might say "yeah i can handle that" ... but wait for the true experience and living it. it is one heck of a ride and learning experience about yourself.

you say you have 75k to live on and that is awesome but that is not the issue. self worth will become your daily battle. you are not going to have a salary regardless of your trading results. you might be in your mid 40s, and your yearly income might be 20K if your good for the first few years. can you deal with that?

i would think those are some key questions, and topics to think about. these are the main issues that came up for me when i went full time as a trader in 2000.




oh yeah, have someone you can call and talk to on a daily basis, as you will need it when you have breakeven / losing days, or frustrating days... and these days will be many. i was fortunate to have my father ... who has been in this business since 1966.

all the best,
patrickq
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1. I have no debt to speak of and I have 2 years of expenses set aside plus I have an additional 75k-100k that I am willing to lose
before I give up and go back into workforce.

Can I ask how you are doing, how the beginning went and
what kind of hours you trade? Do you enjoy it? What is
the best and worst thing about it.

I just turned 40.

Thanks
 
Gwac, I have no particular experience in this area to offer, but I do have a simple observation. You appear to be very well prepared financially and you are an experienced fx trader, you are also aware that there is a world of difference between trading for an FI and going solo.

I'm sure if you search widely enough you will find many people who will give you their experiences, but none of them can tell you how it will work out for you. You have enough experience that you may make it and enjoy it, and you have enough experience to know that you may not. Of course you would like a winning solo career, but now you must make the decission based on whether YOU can afford a losing solo career.

If you dont mind I have a question for you (as I am newbie to fx). Who do you imagine your broker/s will be? Will you pay the same commissions/spreads as you do now. Do FI FX traders have any advantage with spreads/commissions. What sort of timeframe do the pros trade given the spreads (which to me seem to kill short time frame trading)?
 
Haven't read this entire thread, so don't know if you detailed the nature of your trading job. I was a trader at one of the primary dealers back in NY and left to go on my own. I did not have much client order flow to rely on and basically had to position the market to make money which was a big help in the transition to proprietary trading. I would think carefully about whether you are primarily profitable due to what your firm provides (order flow, research,etc) or yourself.
 
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