Trading for a Living - the journey to self discovery

[cloudy]

Isn't most of the market moved by institutional money and HFT anyways?
Today's retail trader is trying to ride the coattails of those market movements. Even if only 50% instead of 95% of retail traders consistently lose money trading would that really significantly change the markets' behavior?

Not sure about the karmic consequences being solely zero-sum. It may not be so much as zero-sum game, but rather in the have's and have-nots. Those who have the resources to trade and investing as opposed to those who can never get in the game.

 

[pattern39]

Quote from Th3UglyTruth:

Clarity requires no repetition.

You are of the opinion that if one made money on a given trade (profit), then one must be "destroying" someone's dreams...and because of "karma", one will never amass wealth in the end...? Unless I've misunderstood you, this is essentially what you are trying to say.

Certainly appreciate your opinion...

However, I am of the opinion that being on the right side of a particular trade has no direct correlation towards destroying other people's dreams. WE, as human beings, do have choices. For every trade we take, we make choices. Every single "long" trade I do is because of choice; every "short" trade I do is also because of choice.

People who have "lost" or have their "dreams destroyed" also had choices. They could have either "sold" (if they were long) or "bought" (if they were short) the investment (choice) that went against them. RIMM shareholders who held on after the company misguided early this year is an example. They "chose" to keep RIMM in their portfolio. Those buying RIMM now is "choosing" to buy it for gains ahead.

The path to a better person or a trader is to be accountable of your choices IMHO.

BTW, if Gold is going up to 1700 in 24 months and the market is going to crash, are you going to go long gold and short ES?

How will Karma explain your position then? IF you aren't taking any position based on those assumptions, why bother posting?

And BTW, you still haven't shared what endeavor you know that allows one to amass wealth without it being zero sum or have karmic consequences.

What is Th3UglyTruth then?

First paragraph... Bravo! Claps hands... I think you finally understood me.

Other paragraphs: Doesn't matter if you see gold going from 1700 to 800 and profit from the slide... Someone gave up their hard earned money in order for you to profit... What did they get in return? Lack of sleep, psychological trauma, emotional pain. The same will have to be reciprocated to you at a later date. Else, the universe will be out of balance and implode upon itself.

The law of conservation of _________. Take charge for example. Don't matter that the universe consists of trillions upon trillions upon trillions of charge particles. Even with just an excess of one negatively charged particle, which is
0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
of the universe, it will implode upon itself for lack of balance.

Likewise, even if Karma miscaculated and left you with an extra penny of profit after the karmic event, the entire universe will implode upon itself... You see where I am going?

 

[RobtF]

Quote from pattern39:

They don't call it a zero sum game b/c for each side that loses another side wins... They call it a zero sum game b/c that is the sum you will end up with guaranteed regardless of how much experience you will have amassed... People, like you and I, were attracted to the market b/c we felt superior that the law of zero sum did not really apply to us...

The trick to amassing great wealth then is to do something that isn't zero sum...

Zero sum is too glib. If the DJ goes from 8,000 to 12,000 real wealth has increased and so has that of many participants.

 

[pattern39]

Quote from RobtF:

Zero sum is too glib. If the DJ goes from 8,000 to 12,000 real wealth has increased and so has that of many participants.

Let's not even get into real wealth. If everyone stopped producing, all the money in the world would buy zilch. Money is just a method of wealth exchange, not the wealth in itself.

 

[Tonkadad]

Quote from pattern39:

.... The same will have to be reciprocated to you at a later date. Else, the universe will be out of balance and implode upon itself.....

That's why I keep trading so I can get back the money I lost, I am just doing my part so the universe can get back into balance (along with my account) and not implode upon itself.

 

[pattern39]

Quote from Tonkadad:

That's why I keep trading so I can get back the money I lost, I am just doing my part so the universe can get back into balance (along with my account) and not implode upon itself.

Good, but when you get back to break even, any additional profits you make will have to be given back... There isn't a single man alive who has beaten the market in terms of outwitting karma and/or eluding it...

 

[Th3UglyTruth]

Quote from cloudy:

Isn't most of the market moved by institutional money and HFT anyways?
Today's retail trader is trying to ride the coattails of those market movements. Even if only 50% instead of 95% of retail traders consistently lose money trading would that really significantly change the markets' behavior?

Not sure about the karmic consequences being solely zero-sum. It may not be so much as zero-sum game, but rather in the have's and have-nots. Those who have the resources to trade and investing as opposed to those who can never get in the game.

Everything is relative depending on your point of view. For sure, institutions these days carry a lot of weight. I'm not sure if the purpose of "retail traders" is to move or change the market's behavior in order to make money. For retail traders like, IMHO, is to be on the "right" side of a trade.

Same thing with Karma; I don't know much about it but by its definition...it is a zero sum relative to how one views how one perceives its definition.

 

[cloudy]

Interesting.. pattern39. Let's say I had 3 years of bad trading experience and loss of money with "Lack of sleep, psychological trauma, emotional pain." So then due to karma balance, I could have 3 years of good trading and profits. Then if I stopped after that I wouldn't have to worry about karma taking back my recent profits?

I could then go into business selling a widget product for a profit for three years. But then I would have losses of three years equivalent to the margin profit I made in the first three years due to karma balancing itself?

But I have to admit I've seen things happen that seem to confirm this in some way.

A successful greedy boss and owner of a company selling products made of substandard parts. Doesn't turn on the air condition in summers and leaves the heat off in winters. A sweatshop with certain workers multitasked to nervous breakdowns and eyesight headaches. Later on a family member of the boss gets progressively sick and dies. Some mysterious arthritic disease with no apparent reason. Person was in their 50's.

A gynecologist had 15 years of great profits delivering illegal alien babies. Then one day due to doing too many operations at once a baby dies and mother sues claiming neglect at critical time. The gynecologist got his license revoked. He had to retire 15 years earlier before his retirement age..

An older friend's father bought and fixed almost a hundred houses along the then sparce socal coast in the 40's and 50's. Made millions as the houses appreciated. then put it all into a hospital. Hospital went bust or scammed. Lost most all his life fortune. Died earlier in depression never receiving his FDR social security. And what about all those people who lost a lot of their life savings in 401k's? Will the banking society and those who received their "bailouts" ever get their karmic comeuppance?

So what's Tiger Woods' karma balance? 10+ years of top of the world fame and adulation. Teens and grade schoolers adore him with fan clubs. Then he gets caught as a "cheetah". Now years to come of disgust and mockery?

 

[Th3UglyTruth]

Quote from pattern39:
First paragraph... Bravo! Claps hands... I think you finally understood me.

Geez thanks...I know, if everyone was as clear as me, the world wouldn't be filled with retards!

Quote from pattern39:
Other paragraphs: Doesn't matter if you see gold going from 1700 to 800 and profit from the slide...

Well, it DOES matter. Again, I ask for clarity...would you take a position to go long on Gold and short ES since you know it will happen in 24 months. And if you do, isn't there any karmic consequences to it?

Quote from pattern39:
.... You see where I am going?

Actually I don't. You are obviously in a different celestial planet that is beyond my earthly comprehension.

Why don't you start a thread on Karmic matters as it pertains to trading. I'll come for a visit once in a while. Till then, I'd prefer to keep my thread karmic free.

 

[Th3UglyTruth]

Quote from cloudy:

Interesting.. Let's say I had 3 years of bad trading experience and loss of money with "Lack of sleep, psychological trauma, emotional pain." So then due to karma balance, I could have 3 years of good trading and profits. Then if I stopped after that I wouldn't have to worry about karma taking back my recent profits?

Cloudy...not sure if you were wanting to respond to me.

However, if you re-read the thread from when pattern raised this issue, you will understand my comments. i didn't bring up karma or do i understand or believe in karma when it comes to the way he correlates it to wins and losses in wealth trading.

I'm not sure where pattern is taking the topic to. All I can perceive is that pattern is correlating "pain" and "hurt" to trading. Which begs the question as to why he is even posting in a "trading" forum. It is kinda like putting an alcoholic in a liquor superstore!

pattern...seriously, why do you feel this way? account losses? In all sincerity, I'd like to help if I can.