Trading for a Living - the journey to self discovery

Quote from trader198:

you are doing good job.

how to buy/sell when to buy/see is no brain stuff. so I am not interested in that.
More...

Thank you for your kind words Trader 198!

You may have missed the words after "trading for a living"...wherein I stated "the journey of self discovery".

So, take what you can use and give what I can (or others) use. I'm happy that you are able to see to buy/sell automatically and is a "no brainer" (I guess that is what you meant?) for you. For others (like me), we are still on this journey of self discovery...

From what I can learn from what you shared...
- you have specific account and risk management rules.

I trust that suits your personality; if that works, that is great!

For me (emphasizing...the "me"), I like things simple for my own situation and I've disclosed most of it from the start.
- $25K per position; 4 streams. I haven't gone beyond 6.
- 10% profit rule (soft rule as I haven't been strict on that!)
- 5% mental loss stop

In terms of "account/balance sheet management"...
- Honestly, I have none. I let the account speak for itself. I don't see the need to keep a spreadsheet of trades (or maybe I'm just unconsciously lazy!).
- I don't have an automatic withdrawal rule; however, when the account doubles, I will move from 4 streams to 8.

Hope that helps.

I'm assuming English is not your main language and I'm certainly trying to be respectful of that.

Good trading to you...earnings season is here!
 
Quote from pattern39:

Everyone, plz listen up... Don't trade stocks to get rich... You will "make it", you won't starve if you put your efforts into it... But... Do not do it to get rich... Severe traumatic experience and rude awakening awaits all those who play the market games to build wealth...
More...


:D pattern39...can you clarify exactly what you are meaning to say?

"all those who play..." seems a generalization that ALL participants in buying/selling investments (stocks, options, et al) are bound to lose their money...

Not sure if that logic holds...for a trader who "lost" on a position; there is another trader on the opposite side that "won"...

Keep in mind that "rich" is relative...how much money do you need to be considered "rich"? What if you are already "rich" and still played the market?:D
 
Quote from Th3UglyTruth:

:D pattern39...can you clarify exactly what you are meaning to say?

"all those who play..." seems a generalization that ALL participants in buying/selling investments (stocks, options, et al) are bound to lose their money...

Not sure if that logic holds...for a trader who "lost" on a position; there is another trader on the opposite side that "won"...

Keep in mind that "rich" is relative...how much money do you need to be considered "rich"? What if you are already "rich" and still played the market?:D
More...

Shareholders profits are just short-term loans. Make the best of them while you have them, but do expect to repay the loan.

Jesse Livermore did, several times over his trading career. Nicolas Darvas did as well, after he bagged several millions from the market. The founder of that liquidity firm did as well, after amassing millions for himself for the twenty or so years that the firm operated, lost it all on one bad market day...

Outside of the market, things can and do change for better/worse in an instant... But within the market, it is pretty much guaranteed that you will lose/give back all that you will ever make... The irony is that you have known it all along... They don't call it a zero sum game b/c for each side that loses another side wins... They call it a zero sum game b/c that is the sum you will end up with guaranteed regardless of how much experience you will have amassed... People, like you and I, were attracted to the market b/c we felt superior that the law of zero sum did not really apply to us...

The trick to amassing great wealth then is to do something that isn't zero sum...
 
Quote from pattern39:

Shareholders profits are just short-term loans. Make the best of them while you have them, but do expect to repay the loan.

The trick to amassing great wealth then is to do something that isn't zero sum...
More...

Thanks for the clarification...

Did you mean a "trader's" profit? A shareholder is an "owner" of a company (loosely defined). Shareholder "profits" from either a dividend paid out or increase in their holding's value. So, I'm not sure I follow...

However...

What would be a "zero sum" endeavor in your mind that has proven to amass great wealth?
 
Quote from Th3UglyTruth:

Thanks for the clarification...

Did you mean a "trader's" profit? A shareholder is an "owner" of a company (loosely defined). Shareholder "profits" from either a dividend paid out or increase in their holding's value. So, I'm not sure I follow...

However...

What would be a "zero sum" endeavor in your mind that has proven to amass great wealth?
More...

My friend, I simply meant any profits that you take from the markets (stocks, futures, forex, etc.) are temporary loans made on your behalf by you-know-who with the horns and the spiked tail... ;)

A non-zero sum endeavor is simply one that isn't one party wins another loses... Any scenario where both parties win as the outcome of an "exchange" would be classified as non-zero sum...

There's a very famous book (How to Get Rich -- by Napoleon Hills) that goes into much further details...

Remember, Coca Cola used to use women to sell Coke (Women of Coke, as they were called), much like how GoDaddy currently features their signature Brunnette on their landing page... Then, Cola Cola discovered that Coke could sell more if they did not feature any scantily-clad women in their ads.
 
Quote from pattern39:
My friend, I simply meant any profits that you take from the markets (stocks, futures, forex, etc.) are temporary loans made on your behalf by you-know-who with the horns and the spiked tail... ;)
More...

How do you know she gave the temporary loans and she hath horns and spiked tails?;)
Is this assumption of yours coming from your own religious background? Granted this thread isn't about religion (or the lack of); I've got an open mind about "religion" and its psychological impact (negative or positive) on someone's trading mind.

Quote from pattern39:
A non-zero sum endeavor is simply one that isn't one party wins another loses... Any scenario where both parties win as the outcome of an "exchange" would be classified as non-zero sum...
More...

Again, please clarify. What endeavor do you suggest that would lead to wealth or creating wealth without being in a "zero sum" situation? Religion is zero sum...

Quote from pattern39:
There's a very famous book (How to Get Rich -- by Napoleon Hills) that goes into much further details....
More...

I've read that book. Tell me what YOU derived from it that applies to Trading (this thread).

Quote from pattern39:
Remember, Coca Cola used to use women to sell Coke (Women of Coke, as they were called), much like how GoDaddy currently features their signature Brunnette on their landing page... Then, Cola Cola discovered that Coke could sell more if they did not feature any scantily-clad women in their ads. .
More...

Ummm...I wasn't born yet! Statistically speaking and from a marketing standpoint, it would difficult to conclude that Coke's success was correlated to the absence of scantily clad women in their ads (see attached). She is my all time fave babe!

On Go Daddy...I'm not sure if you are aware that it just received a $2.25B (yup..billion!) deal!

So, I'm just trying to understand what is it you are trying to share....
- that "trading" for profits is not good for your spiritual growth? or
- there is no profit because of the horned one (why do they have to have horns...if they really do exist) or
- ???
 

Attachments

Behold... Your temp. profit creditor....

attachment.php


(Note the horns and spiked tail)

Don't matter how long you've been/will be trading... Don't matter how much of an edge you have, or how well-back-tested it is... It's still a zero sum over the long haul... The longer you are at it, the more times you go broke...

Now, don't take my word for it b/c I'm a religious person (which I'm not). The universe is made of math (perfect planetary orbits)... Fibonacci ratios in nature, etc. How much ever you decrease someone else's account, that exact amount will have to be decreased from your own account in the future, lest the entire universe implodes upon itself for lack of mathematical balance...

Don't believe me... This most famous example during Barnum's prime years:

48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene
P.T. Barnum was an expert at destroying his competitor’s reputation. He published
letters in newspapers, warning the public against buying his opponent’s stock. He
was a master at poking mockery at the tactics of his rivals.
More...

Guess what happened to Barnum after he destroyed his competitors' business?

Wikipedia
In the early 1850s, Barnum began investing to develop East Bridgeport, Connecticut. He made substantial loans to the Jerome Clock Company, to get it to move to his new industrial area. But by 1856, the company went bankrupt, taking Barnum's wealth with it. This started four years of litigation and public humiliation.
More...

Barnum humiliated his competitors, and then it was his turn... Ain't karma a bitch????
 

Attachments

Quote from pattern39:

How much ever you decrease someone else's account, that exact amount will have to be decreased from your own account in the future, lest the entire universe implodes upon itself for lack of mathematical balance...

Don't believe me... This most famous example during Barnum's prime years:

Guess what happened to Barnum after he destroyed his competitors' business?

Barnum humiliated his competitors, and then it was his turn... Ain't karma a bitch????
More...

Again, I'm not sure what it is you are exactly trying to share....

If garnering profits from trading is bad...why are you in these forums? Have you suffered from losses that it has made you look at things this way?

On Barnum...are we talking about Phinaes Barnum? He wasn't a trader; he didn't trade or attempt to trade for a living. History seems to paint him to be a scam artist.

Trading stocks has nothing to do with humiliating the trader on the opposite side. I'm not sure why you are trying to correlate the two.

Karma (if there is such a thing), is a zero sum game as well.

What endeavor SPECIFICALLY can one do to amass wealth without it (the activity) being a zero sum game or affecting your Karma?

So far, we seem to go in circles here.

Again, what message (related to trading) or experience you want to share (related to trading) would you like to share?
 
Quote from Th3UglyTruth:

Again, I'm not sure what it is you are exactly trying to share....

If garnering profits from trading is bad...why are you in these forums? Have you suffered from losses that it has made you look at things this way?

On Barnum...are we talking about Phinaes Barnum? He wasn't a trader; he didn't trade or attempt to trade for a living. History seems to paint him to be a scam artist.

Trading stocks has nothing to do with humiliating the trader on the opposite side. I'm not sure why you are trying to correlate the two.

Karma (if there is such a thing), is a zero sum game as well.

What endeavor SPECIFICALLY can one do to amass wealth without it (the activity) being a zero sum game or affecting your Karma?

So far, we seem to go in circles here.

Again, what message (related to trading) or experience you want to share (related to trading) would you like to share?
More...

Lol, must I repeat myself? Destroying other people's dreams to build your own is no way to amass wealth, b/c karma always comes back and bite you in the butt... Or, as I have read somewhere, "there isn't a single man alive who has beaten the market (taken to mean who has eluded the karmic consequences of having looted their victims trading account and giving them psychological trauma along with poverty in exchange for the legalized theft known as trading)"...
 
Quote from pattern39:

Lol, must I repeat myself? Destroying other people's dreams to build your own is no way to amass wealth, b/c karma always comes back and bite you in the butt...
More...

Clarity requires no repetition.

You are of the opinion that if one made money on a given trade (profit), then one must be "destroying" someone's dreams...and because of "karma", one will never amass wealth in the end...? Unless I've misunderstood you, this is essentially what you are trying to say.

Certainly appreciate your opinion...

However, I am of the opinion that being on the right side of a particular trade has no direct correlation towards destroying other people's dreams. WE, as human beings, do have choices. For every trade we take, we make choices. Every single "long" trade I do is because of choice; every "short" trade I do is also because of choice.

People who have "lost" or have their "dreams destroyed" also had choices. They could have either "sold" (if they were long) or "bought" (if they were short) the investment (choice) that went against them. RIMM shareholders who held on after the company misguided early this year is an example. They "chose" to keep RIMM in their portfolio. Those buying RIMM now is "choosing" to buy it for gains ahead.

The path to a better person or a trader is to be accountable of your choices IMHO.

BTW, if Gold is going up to 1700 in 24 months and the market is going to crash, are you going to go long gold and short ES?

How will Karma explain your position then? IF you aren't taking any position based on those assumptions, why bother posting?

And BTW, you still haven't shared what endeavor you know that allows one to amass wealth without it being zero sum or have karmic consequences.

What is Th3UglyTruth then?
 

Attachments

You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top