To go for professional advice.
Trading for a living & taxes in EU
- Thread starter w4rri0r
- Start date
To go for professional advice.
Well, the sun is shining here!Similar question here. I made a killing daytrading bitcoin over the past year (>1m), and I'm looking to move my permanent residency to an other country to reduce my taxes on future profits. In my native country (Belgium) it's considered professional income so it's taxed at income tax, up to 50%. I've heard some dutch traders say they only pay the wealth tax, but it's not clear whether daytrading is considered normal wealth management or a professional income which would be taxed by income tax. I want to do everything legally, and I'm willing to move anywhere that's safe and taxed under 20%, preferably with some sunWhat do you guys recommend?
If you invested as an individual they charge you basically from the list that Schweiz published; (about the brackets and Taxable assets #28)
But you have to report; they want to check you don't use any illegal money.
It's a 01/01/2017 asset story over here for 2017.
You should have moved in 2017, because you'll be in trouble for owning that much at 01/01/2018...
I hope the Belgians let you walk away with this...
Tax people cannot trace bitcoins. So he can get away with it. But he should not spent too much money because that's how they catch you.
I'll pay Belgian taxes over my 2017 income, just looking to continue my trading abroad as soon as possible.
But is trading derivatives all day considered a normal management of your wealth? I don't want to move to the Netherlands only to find out months later that I'm getting hit with income tax. I'd rather go somewhere else and pay 15-20% where I have legal certainty.
I will. Just doing my own research first so I know what to expect.
For example, is it hard to get a work visa as a trader? If so, my options are limited to within the EU.
the question is complicated by your own aims: do you want to make AND spend a lot of money or do you want to make the money and keep as much of it as possible to grow your wealth?
if it's the former you need a low personal tax rate; if it's the latter then maybe you can consider incorporating in a low corporate tax country and pay yourself a small salary as an expense of the company. corporation tax in the UK for example is 20% of profits.
if it's the former you need a low personal tax rate; if it's the latter then maybe you can consider incorporating in a low corporate tax country and pay yourself a small salary as an expense of the company. corporation tax in the UK for example is 20% of profits.
No.
I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be. I spent a lot of time reading this thread from start to finish. dw31583 makes it clear that having an offshore company while trading elsewhere isn't legal and will result in you being taxed in your country of residence if you make enough money to show up on the radar. Actually moving there is the only safe way, but then you have to get a work permit or buy your way into residency. The Netherlands will in all likelihood be taxed at income tax if you do frequent trading, so I won't risk it.
So the remaining easy low-tax countries are Isle of Man, Estonia, Bulgaria and Hungary. Not the most interesting countries to live in. Estonia stands out because of their modern IT, making it very easy to register the company and file taxes online. The only tax is a 20% tax on dividends.
I still want to explore what's possible in other countries in terms of obtaining tax residency. HK and Singapore have too high investment requirements for me. UAE is only a $5000 investment and you pay zero taxes, but they've been blowing hot and cold on cryptocurrencies. Moving to the Bahamas or Panama might be asking for trouble. Any other countries I should consider?
Exactly!
A lot of dreamers here. All these offshore and similar constructions don't work anymore.
Your physical presence is necessary in the country where you wish to pay low taxes.
You need also a substantial amount of profits EVERY year. I don't know your situation, but making a lucky 1 million shot with bitcoins is not enough. You should make at least 500-1000K EVERY year over and over again. If not the savings are too small for the work, the risk and the probably lower lifestyle you will have. Lower taxes are mostly in corrupt or not safe countries.
Can you not trade in your personal name? Why start a business and make expenses and having to follow a lot of rules? In Europe you are free to move anywhere and you will always receive a permission for a long stay, at least if you proof you will not cause any financial problems for that country (enough capital or income and a good health care insurance).
What is clear is that you will have to leave Belgium to proof that you should not pay taxes there anymore. Don't forget that the 183 days rule cannot be applied in this case as there is no minimum or maximum stay mentioned in the law.
What will be used against you as they will try to taxe you:
- where are your family living (wife, children)
- do you have a bank account in Belgium?
- do you have property in Belgium?
- do you have a mobile phone number in Belgium?
- do you spent money in Belgium wirh a foreign creditcard frequently?
- can they trace your mobile phone( evne a foreign number) many times in Belgium? Mobile phones are very dangerous as they give a lot of information. Rule is to never take your mobile phone with you wj-hen going to Belgium.
- etc, etc...
Last edited: