Trading for a living....full time....only income

OK, point well taken. I just always think back to a friend of mine who thought he wanted to trade. I advised him against it because I thought his personality was not right. I talked about him in my "successful trading" thread.

He watched so many stocks, he couldn't see the forest for the trees. That part I mentioned. What I did not talk about was that he sat in a very cold room...we all do, the a/c is always on because their are so many computers and monitors. Most of us keep a sweat shirt or sweater available. Anyway, this friend of mine always looked like he was just coming off the golf course in florida in August. Or was having sex for 3 hours without being done. I mean he was soaked from head to toe. His keyboard and mouse were almost underwater. Talk about sweating the moves :) Got even worse when he moved up from paper trading:)
So that was what I was thinking when I wrote "too stressful"!
Sorry if the term was too "ephemeral".
Chas, keep up the good posts and the constructive thinking.
Good trading to everyone!


With all that sweating sounds like he was doing a few lines. Your suppose to learn from paper traders, develop a strategy, why was was he sweating. In addition PC's dont get hot from trading, gaming yeah but not trading. Your whole story seems SUSPECT.
 
Yes, money printing by Central Banks worldwide has elevated most asset classes, but done little for the real economies. We've seen this movie before (directed by the evil Alan Greenspan, who continues to attempt to re-write history) and know it will end very badly, but timing is tough. It could last another 3-5 years, or 3-5 months. The S&P may have already put in a high, and the decline could be starting.

But back to my trading. Even though I may build-up a position of 100+ lots, most of my e-mini orders are for 1 -5 lots. There is too much liquidity and too many smart traders, and computerized algorithms, so, IMO, scale trading is mandatory.

And although I sometimes scalp a few ticks, that is generally because my position has increased, say to 70- 100 lots, and the mkt is still showing too much strength (I'm almost always short.)

Hopefully anyone who has traded for more than a few days, knows the trick to trading is not finding profitable trades, or bull or bear markets, but how one handles losses. So in my case, if I am short 10 or 20 or 50 lots, I'm always worried what would happen if the mkt ran-up 5 or 10 or 20 handles. I'll take losses of $50 - $200 per contract, or preferably profit of $10 per lot. What kills both the pocketbook and especially the soul are losses of $30-50,000 (50 lots x 15-20 handles.)

I consider myself a good trader, and over tens of thousands of trades, spanning 20-30 years, I am profitable on maybe 30-40% of my trades. A successful scalper would have a higher %, while long-term trend followers (some still remain) might only be correct on 20%. Most top-notch traders fall into above. Anyone claiming greater than 70% profitable, I dismiss as a liar, or has too short a trading history. High frequency systems would have a much higher %. And likely major Wall St houses, playing customer flow, etc., would have the highest %, but I don't really consider them traders, per se.

So at 1/3 profitable, the statistical chance of string(s) of losses is huge, which translates into draw downs that can be measured in dollars, days, weeks, months. It is the psychological stress of losing, on balance, weeks on end, that does in most traders.

What I look for is to every so often, have a 50-100 lot position and capture 20 - 50 SP handles over a 2-5 day move (drop, in my case.) Or maybe 100 handles. That could yield say $250-$500,000 in 1-2 weeks; every so often, in 1-2 days. That would make my year, with hopefully all the other approx 200 trading days break-even. Sounds odd, but as we know many retailers make their year during the 2-week Xmas period. One big difference is the retailer is able to calculate his draw down period from Feb - Nov, while a trader must be ever vigilant to control the inevitable draw down periods.

I rambled above, but that is due to early Sunday morning, and a good reason why I rarely visit/contribute to trading sites/blogs.

Excellent post!
 
Yes. Only, 'too' is ephemeral, too.

Life and death situations are too stressful, yet everyone gets there at some point.

People have a magnificent capablility of adapting and overcoming. The determiner, I think, is commitment. Is one committed enough to deal with the stress...to learn, to improve, to discipline one's self, to learn one's hot buttons, to keep a level head in success and failure, and so, to gain victory?

Perhaps one finds, on reflection, that he just isn't that committed after all. That is no disgrace. But if he is, what need stop him? He will do whatever it takes.

<font size=1>Just making a distinction.</i>

The best post in this thread. Respect.
 
I still aspire to someday be able to make a living out of the stockmarket. Not quite there yet. I have managed to control my losses and I think that is one of the keys to successful trading. Trade selection probably is another thing I need to work on. My goals are modest. Just to be able to make a living from the markets to pay bills and other financial obligations. Someone mentioned that there will be bad times and to salt away monies when the trading is good. That is a pretty good advise. The inspiration we get from the best traders out there certainly will inspire the rest of us to persevere to reach our goals. Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions and advise.
 
How can this thread be among the all-time best?

I never understood people who extol trading as a replacement for some kind of wage-earning job that pays their bills. I admit that my inability to connect with such people sometimes leads me to question whether or not they know what they're talking about. For me, the "job" of trading is to grow the account. Period!

My advice is to forget about trading for a living. If you want to trade full-time, be sure your living expenses are already squirreled away in a separate account or you have another source of income that takes care of them. Otherwise you are just part of the Scared Money.

It's also a good idea to sweep excess capital from your accounts. I stopped parking money in brokerage accounts years ago and totally lucked out in dodging the PFG fiasco where I had kept a small amount for years in case I wanted to enter their trading contest.

At any rate, I recommend replacing this thread in the Hall of Fame with the Stochastic Indicator thread which in my opinion really is one of the all time best. A thread such as this belongs in the Newbie FAQ Lobby.
 
after 5 years of research ,finally it's near one year that i'm consistently making money and it's my full time and only income.
although this 5 years was the worst times of my life,i learnt patience and self control.
i understand the importance of psychological aspects but i don't know why a lot of people underestimate the importance of an edge or a system.
i sacrificed my time , my money and my 5 years ...

although achieving a consistent system was hard- so hard that i can not express it,but the more tough issue was my nationality. i'm Iranian and due to rigid sanctions opening trading account/ transaction was impossible . by decreasing Iran national currency by 400% in only 3 months ,all of my hope was ruined...
i had also big issues with internet speed ,here any real high speed internet is forbidden due to rigid censorship ,now my every click on remote trading server has near 10 seconds delay .
i trade in behalf of another person account and every month i fly two way 16 hours duration for getting my income in cash after deductions.(any banking transaction to Iran is impossible)

i'm siting in front of charts 15 hours a day and i'm increasing my balance each month and my hope is only one thing : be in a country with a standard internet and having a banking account without fear of getting frozen due to stupid nationality ...
 
Trading is an aggressive mode of investing. Learn proper investiing first, which is easier.

The number one rule of investing is preservation of capital. As you get into aggressive modes, your defense becomes your offense.

If you know investing, you won't have to come to chat forums ask randomly how to trade.
 
after 5 years of research ,finally it's near one year that i'm consistently making money and it's my full time and only income.
although this 5 years was the worst times of my life,i learnt patience and self control.

i'm siting in front of charts 15 hours ...

I'd guess when things were tough, you were pulling in more than 15hours/day.

So basically that's at least 18 000 hours of intensive screen-time. :D
 
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