Trading couple for 3 years are harassed by UBS Bahamas, your help will bring victory

[destriero]

CSE lost $610K over a year... all while continuing to trade through UBS. No mention of "delayed" executions until she violated the collateral-limits. There are 1,000 pages of documents.

 

[d08]

Why you think that we made mistakes, why simply not looking into the documents, what is wrong with you?
Our case is absolutely case of the rights of individual traders! And the claims against UBS are so simple:
1. delay in executions which cost us of profit not taken, not posting numbers here, so to save your head from bolling
2. once we show them and insisted to be refunded and to have finally our electronic platforms the show has begun
Credit Suisse, the same plus charged only in fees and astronomic number for two months of trading.
But is it worth to mention it to you? be it your sympathy for Nazi or hate-envy for Jews, only you can help yourself to look on our case with the eyes of neutral just observer and a not pathetic accuser with no foundation.
I had a word from the very dear person here on ET, whom I respect and to whom I am thankful so this member defended you in my eyes and said that you are intelligent and expert, hope you will show that.

1. As you described it, the execution delay was seconds or minutes tops. What evidence do we have of this besides your word against theirs? You called 2 minutes before the Fed announcement, maybe you were on hold for a few more seconds, forgot how much time actually passed. You cannot blame the broker for not filling PHONE orders within a few seconds, no-one expects this.

2. What fees? What are the fees? Are you suggesting UBS, a major bank charged fees randomly and just for you? What were the fees? You never once talked about this in detail and this is very important.

Your whole story smells as the things don't add up.

I also don't necessarily need defending, even though it's appreciated, whoever it was.

 

[nonlinear5]

Me either, it just happened, that we found them half dead and save and let them make first kittens before sterilization and they were so fast to reproduce, hi-hi.

What about 'em five donkeys that you had? And I believe you had half a dozen ponies, as well? Also wondering what happens if a donkey copulates with a pony? What kind of baby animal gets born?

 

[CSEtrader]

Coming back to this thread after a long gap - please, do I have this right?/]


Certainly, but, please, with your eyes opened to the truth and not what your mind invented, as would be true in average but not in this case.

Coming back to this thread after a long gap - please, do I have this right?

You borrowed money to trade with. Profits from the trading were to pay for the interest.

Not only, but to create important profit too and devote our resources to different charities, as we already started.

The company started proceedings for breach of contract.

No, we are suing them for breach of contract. They went to the court, on the date which we were not informed about and lied to the judge, that
1. it was a simple mortgage and we were not paying interests - lie, the funds in our account was the triple amount of interests requested up to the contract expiration
2. that we failed to keep 50% of the loan on the account - lies, first because the amount plus what they suppose to refund was more. Second, because it could never be a binding condition for which they can sue. Especially, once the bank is in liquidation, declared in 2014, four years before our contract expiration.

Meantime, as a result of this stupidly naive (or aggressively greedy) business model, the lender went into liquidation.

So you're suing the lender's parent company for the gains you missed out on from your trading?

Am I crazy?

You are not certainly crazy and I hope you have a genuine interest to really understand the truth. Thank you for your time and attention. Hope answers above brought some light on your doubts. I am here and glad to provide details, after 4.45 ECT, trying to do something with our tiny capital and all the burden on my shoulders. Still, if we have it then it is possible. Nothing is impossible of what is coming to our lives - the Univers always hold us.

Thanks mate.

Whatever the various purposes of the profits, you borrowed money from UBS Bahamas to trade with?

You did not make enough profit to pay the interest?

You say it was their fault due to late execution and so you sued them for breach of contract on this basis?

A mortgage is just a loan but I assume the word "mortgage" has been used because your house was the security for the borrowed money with which to trade?

You are correct - the word mortgage was used because the house was used as collateral.
No, we did not have losses - here is the heart of the problem, we made the profit. But UBS refused to give us the electronic platform, and they pretended us to email and then to call. The executions went up to 20 minutes! When you are doing FAS, DUST, NUGT - ETFs with high volumes and big moves, such executions brought to the situation were our profit was zero, we asked the refund and show begun.

 

[CSEtrader]

1. As you described it, the execution delay was seconds or minutes tops. What evidence do we have of this besides your word against theirs? You called 2 minutes before the Fed announcement, maybe you were on hold for a few more seconds, forgot how much time actually passed. You cannot blame the broker for not filling PHONE orders within a few seconds, no-one expects this.

2. What fees? What are the fees? Are you suggesting UBS, a major bank charged fees randomly and just for you? What were the fees? You never once talked about this in detail and this is very important.

Your whole story smells as the things don't add up.

I also don't necessarily need defending, even though it's appreciated, whoever it was.

After the crash in 2009 with Credit Suisse trading and always late executions, we asked and were promised by UBS to have an electronic platform. They refused to do so when we had already loan guaranteed by the mortgage. UBS confirmed in the email that the executions would take 20 seconds.
1. We have all the emails and the table with the summary of all trades. We have account statements as well. Would you like to see?
And again - we would never give the house as the guarantee for phone orders, UBS changed it later! And in any case, we were, assured of 20 seconds execution. This is our style to trade. You may be by institutions side and trying to justify them, otherwise, please, explain who of today professional traders can bear this type of executions?
2. Fees charged by Credit Suisse in 2009. Instead of flat fee pro capital of 0.7% annual, they charged every trade this amount! And yes they did not show us balance for two months. Yes, we were naive, we did not know and did not expect this of lie and I would call it robbery, from one of the biggest institutions.
I know, our story looks incredible, but sadly it is true.
Please, help me to understand what is not add up? Thank you for your time.

 

[destriero]

Coming back to this thread after a long gap - please, do I have this right?

You borrowed money to trade with. Profits from the trading were to pay for the interest.

Losses were made in trading and whatever profit or capital was available was insufficient to pay the interest on the loan. You said it was their fault, they disputed this.

The company started proceedings for breach of contract.

Meantime, as a result of this stupidly naive (or aggressively greedy) business model, the lender went into liquidation.

So you're suing the lender's parent company for the gains you missed out on from your trading?

Am I crazy?

A little.

They mortgaged their property and funded an account with UBS (lender) to trade futures. They subsequently lost $610K and violated their loan covenants. Only then did they arrive at the late execution bullshit. Yes, they called on NFP Friday after losing $80K and had to wait 20 seconds to get an out on a trade. CSE expected to be made whole with a suitability argument after failing with the delayed execution scam.

 

[tomorton]

So you made profits at first but then UBS started to delay your trade execution. And this caused you to go from profitable trades to losing trades?

When you were making profits, did you keep making re-payments on the loan or paying the interest as agreed?

At what point did you stop making payments on the loan? And what was the reason for this decision?

 

[tomorton]

Plus, when your execution times went out such that you could not make profitable trades, how many times did this happen and for how long?

Surely there would have been a point when you would have realised that so many trades were losing money that you would be unable to meet your loan re-payments. What did you do at that point?

 

[CSEtrader]

So you made profits at first but then UBS started to delay your trade execution. And this caused you to go from profitable trades to losing trades?

When you were making profits, did you keep making re-payments on the loan or paying the interest as agreed?

At what point did you stop making payments on the loan? And what was the reason for this decision?

We worked only seven weeks - July -September 2013. The profit was made, and the fees/loan interests paid, as for 31 August 2013.

But if UBS were executing properly our trades, we would have three times more on our account.

The key moment becomes September 18, 2013. Stressed by emails and insults by UBS's manager, I hold the position, which normally we would not. Yes, I liquidated it at 1.58 pm, 2 minutes before the announcement, still because I have to call and not having DMA, promised too, we fixed a loss which was 30% of our total profit if the executions were made in time.
At this point, we demanded a meeting, which was on 8 October 2013. We stated, that as traders we assuming our responsibility for holding this time wrong side, it is normal, it is part of our business and i certainly should be less emotional and vulnerable and not let manager drive me in. Let a part churning and all policies of the banks which were violated. But I simply said, that if I had my electronic platform the lose would be 2-5% of total profit and not 30%.
We never stopped to make payments. We even offered UBS to pre-pay the whole amount of interests up to the loan expiration and to keep what would be left plus late executions refund.
They preferred to squeeze us.

 

[CSEtrader]

Plus, when your execution times went out such that you could not make profitable trades, how many times did this happen and for how long?

Surely there would have been a point when you would have realised that so many trades were losing money that you would be unable to meet your loan re-payments. What did you do at that point?

We were in positive and our trades were paying our loan and good lifestyle if only executed in time.
they were never in time, but you are not going to fight with the big institution, we were trying to work it out. Until 18 September, when not only we had this bad day, but in two followed weeks, before the meeting of 8 October, UBS simply refused to execute our trade orders. This brought another loss of profit, with the amount to cover interests for two years. It is all documented in emails and sworn in Affidavits. Would you like to see?