Trading Computer Network Connection / Safety

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NoBias said:
Any and all ISP modems should be on backup power/UPS.

Quick question, I spoke to verizon tech support, who often times is borderline useless. I told him/her about my idea of running a UPS for backup on the internet. First she said it's impossible and won't help anything. Than she changed her mind and said well if you have the verizon main board (ONT) connected to the UPS it should work. Than she ended by saying I need a certified tech from somewhere other than verizon to do what I am talking about and she's not sure if it is safe.

Is there a problem in me taking the power plug out of the wall and running it into my UPS? I may have to use an extension cord, the box is in the garage downstairs, I'm upstairs.
The laptop is the backup in the event of primary system failure. Its battery serves as a built in UPS.

3G/4G is an alternate technology as back up in the event of ISP/modem failure
[note: it is preferable to use a different provider]

I see, okay. Yes I agree a additional ISP would be better.

This can be either a dedicated 3G/4G -USB stick/key - [think of a sim card in a USB flash drive]
Similar to this: http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/mobile-broadband/broadband-2-go/franklin-wireless-u600/features/

Never saw this, thanks. I may be able to get a mobile hotspot device from my phone service provider (AT&T).
or

Android/Apple Device - 3G/4G rate plan with TETHERING capabilities - (preferably USB and/or Wifi)

As Winston mentioned, many points of failure exist, hardware, feed, power, brokerage, etc... You need to have contingencies for each.

Personally I have ADSL and 4G from different providers, soon FiO will be available in my building and I will have three technologies from different providers at my avail. The most stable will be connected to my primary system and the other to laptop via ethernet.

Sorry but what is ADSL? Sounds like a good plan, I will need to establish something similar in the near future.

My 4G backup is a Nexus 5 which I can either tether to computers or use mobileTWS[IB] to close positions directly depending on situation.

When you need to close positions in an emergency. ~$30-$100/month is a small price to pay for insurance.
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Are you referring to the business line Winston mentioned earlier? If I were to get a direct business line from Fios, would this provide me with a backup? Or would it still be the same because they are both from verizon?

Thanks for your help again.
 
the other posters answered most of your questions, but to simplify... your U/D is a function of bandwidth(how many hiway lanes on that road)... latency is a function of distance, and network congestion...

as an example... from my house to NY4... I am 25ms... from my server colo in NJ to NY4 I am 1ms...

80/40 is plenty and 7ms is pretty good for most normal trading...

also, most "business" products from the Telco (unless true dedicated lines) are just QoS on the regular network that is shared with the consumer segment... and lastly, if trading with IB, just use mobileTWS as you suggest... get an ipad with cellular service and you are all set... don't go nuts with anything else IMO...
 
ofthomas said:
the other posters answered most of your questions, but to simplify... your U/D is a function of bandwidth(how many hiway lanes on that road)... latency is a function of distance, and network congestion...

Yes this is the way I have believed it to be.

as an example... from my house to NY4... I am 25ms... from my server colo in NJ to NY4 I am 1ms...

And this is mostly a function of distance as opposed to internet quality / speed. NY4 is in NJ correct? Your server is Co-located within ny4 to achieve 1ms latency?

80/40 is plenty and 7ms is pretty good for most normal trading...
Okay so you see no need to increase bandwidth? Could you define/elaborate what "normal trading" is in your opinion. Because I don't feel what I am referencing is considered normal.

also, most "business" products from the Telco (unless true dedicated lines) are just QoS on the regular network that is shared with the consumer segment... and lastly, if trading with IB, just use mobileTWS as you suggest... get an ipad with cellular service and you are all set... don't go nuts with anything else IMO...
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I inquired with verizon today, it is basically the exact same network/service for the business line except with special "attention" So in short, useless. I am trading with Takion Platform.
 
ofthomas said:
if I was co-located, it would be sub-0ms... normal trading is anything that is not executing black box collocated.
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That brings up a thought. How exactly do you go about acquiring a colo to reduce latency? Similar to what you stated comparing from your house to NY4 than comparing your colo server to NY4? Also how much does this run you? Obviously not nearly as much as co-locating within a data center, but I'm sure it's not cheap. Feel free to private message me pricing details. Would I benefit from reducing my latency down to 1ms compared to what I am at now. Not sure what my latency to NY4 is, how could I ping it?

Okay so anything short of something similar to true HFT algo trading? Or does that include people who run algorithmic trading from their own homes?

Thanks for the info!
 
Limitless100 said:
My style of trading is high frequency day trading / scalping. Not to be confused with algorithmic HFT trading. I simply mean high volumes of trades during the day.
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I'll refer you to your own initial statement... also, WinstonTJ has written a lot of posts about the subject... but to make it simple, you dont need if you are a click trader... and by that I mean co-lo @ the exchange...

you can be closer to your Quote/OMS servers from your provider if that is what you desire and that will be rather inexpensive at a few hundred per month... but that will all vary depending on the server you lease..

keep in mind that your eye/hand coordination will respond in sec... never in ms... I use CyborgTrader for that very reason, it can trade faster than I can via API... after all, is not like the GUI for any trading program shows you all the data during fast markets... if they do, they tend to lag big time as the program cant keep up...

anyhow, you are worrying about nothing... your latency and bandwidth are both more than adequate for what you are doing, even if high volume high frequency... dont over think it... technology is a tool... and while it can provide you with an edge, that comes down to the trading strategy... bare in mind that I assume you are a click trader and not a graybox or blackbox trader... and since you mentioned takion, I am making an educated guess .....
 
ofthomas said:
I'll refer you to your own initial statement... also, WinstonTJ has written a lot of posts about the subject... but to make it simple, you dont need if you are a click trader... and by that I mean co-lo @ the exchange...

Yes I do not use any type of algorithmic trading currently. By Co-lo at the exchange you are referring to something like colo inside NY4 which would provide sub 0ms latency?

you can be closer to your Quote/OMS servers from your provider if that is what you desire and that will be rather inexpensive at a few hundred per month... but that will all vary depending on the server you lease..

Yes, is this what you were explaining that you had? A server that basically moves you closer to the provider to reduce latency.

keep in mind that your eye/hand coordination will respond in sec... never in ms... I use CyborgTrader for that very reason, it can trade faster than I can via API... after all, is not like the GUI for any trading program shows you all the data during fast markets... if they do, they tend to lag big time as the program cant keep up...

Absolutely true. Never heard of CyberTrader, what exactly does it do? Provide some type of automation.

anyhow, you are worrying about nothing... your latency and bandwidth are both more than adequate for what you are doing, even if high volume high frequency... dont over think it... technology is a tool... and while it can provide you with an edge, that comes down to the trading strategy... bare in mind that I assume you are a click trader and not a graybox or blackbox trader... and since you mentioned takion, I am making an educated guess .....
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Yes I don't use any type of programmable trading programs/code right now. I agree 100%, trading strategy is the more important aspect. If you have all the tech without the strat you won't go very far. My issue, and the way I look at it, is if I can get all of the simple/cheap tech edges I can, the rest is up to me. I want tech to hold me back the least it can, leaving the focus on my skills/strategy. Does that make sense?
 
Limitless100 said:
I spoke to verizon tech support about my idea of running a UPS for backup on the internet.
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My suggestions above were directed towards most retail "click" traders.

A UPS is a simple device, basically a power strip with an integrated battery, nothing complicated at all. It is a simple retail solution. Plug it into the wall, plug your devices into it. newegg, amazon, etc...
http://bit.ly/1lr17TH

ADSL isn't anything special, it basically uses existing phone lines for data transmission. if you have FiO [fiber optics] you are lucky and ahead of the game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_digital_subscriber_line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber-optic_communication

Using your phone providers 3G/4G as a tethered "hotspot" is fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

I merely mentioned 3G/4G usb sticks as an alternate option. I used them in the past.
[retrospectively, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it, now that most all phone plans offer tethering.]

The key is to KISS, and not over think it. As ofthomas pointed out, if you are a retail "click" trader, latency becomes less of an issue and your current feed should be more than sufficient.
 
NoBias said:
My suggestions above were directed towards most retail "click" traders.

A UPS is a simple device, basically a power strip with an integrated battery, nothing complicated at all. It is a simple retail solution. Plug it into the wall, plug your devices into it. newegg, amazon, etc...
http://bit.ly/1lr17TH

That is what I believed, hence why I couldn't understand the issue the verizon rep was having.

ADSL isn't anything special, it basically uses existing phone lines for data transmission. if you have FiO [fiber optics] you are lucky and ahead of the game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_digital_subscriber_line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber-optic_communication

I see, okay.

Using your phone providers 3G/4G as a tethered "hotspot" is fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G

AT&T actually offers a small device that will provide you wiht 4gLTD wifi opposed to using my phone.

I merely mentioned 3G/4G usb sticks as an alternate option. I used them in the past.
[retrospectively, I probably shouldn't have mentioned it, now that most all phone plans offer tethering.]

The key is to KISS, and not over think it. As ofthomas pointed out, if you are a retail "click" trader, latency becomes less of an issue and your current feed should be more than sufficient.
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Thanks!
 
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