Trading can be easy
- Thread starter Ditch
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Fourcups, you start a thread titled Seems like day trading is all but finished, and which you post the following:
It's great to hear that some people are still making money.I guess my key is my patience. I need to be sharp every minute.
And now you want to say that making 10K/mo. is not really making money trading. That's BS.
It's great to hear that some people are still making money.I guess my key is my patience. I need to be sharp every minute.
And now you want to say that making 10K/mo. is not really making money trading. That's BS.
Quote from Ditch:
It's these kind of reactions that makes you think twice before sharing anything at all. for you it's obviously too late
I agree Ditch. This is why I don't post setups or offer % winners, etc. Too many people here just attack anything. If they don't agree they should either just ignore it or say thanks, but I don't see how this works...
Thanks for the post. I use a similar pullback strategy (but different tools). I realized years ago, that fot me at least, chasing never works in day trading over the long run.
Jay
I can't resist from opening my big mouth again 
It is irrelevant on the amount of cash a trader makes.
ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT
Here's why...
what's is important is that you make enough money to pay your business expenses (yes...trading is a business), your personal bills, rent or mortgage, little money here and there for the kids future college expenses (if you got kids...I heard in year 2025 it will cost 100k to send one kid to college...crazy and almost unbelievable)...money in the savings account for a rainy day and some spending cash.
In other words...every trader has a different lifestyle from another trader.
For example...lets say you have no debts, house paid for, no expensive property taxes and your single...
a trader making 3k per month after all his expenses to maintain whatever lifestyle he has...
3k per month...is plenty.
(someone please provide a valid argument how I'm missing the point on this)
Another guy with debts and mortgage...may need 6k per month.
My point is this...I truly feel to say if somebody is only making XXX amounts of dollars per month as a deciding factor if he/she is a good trader or successful trader or whatever type of trader....
without knowing that traders lifestyle expenses...
is a tad bit absurb.
What about traders with financial problems...more dollars going out than coming in?
Think about this...I know a trader with a very expensive lifestlye...lots of bills...lots of debts...making about 10k per month...of that...he told me he is bringing home about 1.5k.
I know another trader with no debts, sharing a decent apartment in a nice neighbor with another trader...his profits is about 2.8k per month...
however...he is bringing home about 2.2k per month after all expenses.
Think about it...how many traders are here trading undercapitalized...new to the markets...trying to find a competitive edge...
and have outside expenses.
Talk about trading in a difficult situation...odds are very poor that these types of traders are going to survive current market conditions.
Simply...how much you make per month is irrelevant...
what your able to do with what you make...that has relevancy.
Isn't that what women say to their men to comfort them...
it's not what size you have...it's what your able to do with it...that's what matters
P.S. Notice how I didn't say anything about the IRS...if your still bringing home a few K's after the IRS dips into your wallet...
your doing great as a trader in business...regardless if trading conditions is easy or difficult or whatever.
NihabaAshi
It is irrelevant on the amount of cash a trader makes.
ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT
Here's why...
what's is important is that you make enough money to pay your business expenses (yes...trading is a business), your personal bills, rent or mortgage, little money here and there for the kids future college expenses (if you got kids...I heard in year 2025 it will cost 100k to send one kid to college...crazy and almost unbelievable)...money in the savings account for a rainy day and some spending cash.
In other words...every trader has a different lifestyle from another trader.
For example...lets say you have no debts, house paid for, no expensive property taxes and your single...
a trader making 3k per month after all his expenses to maintain whatever lifestyle he has...
3k per month...is plenty.
(someone please provide a valid argument how I'm missing the point on this)
Another guy with debts and mortgage...may need 6k per month.
My point is this...I truly feel to say if somebody is only making XXX amounts of dollars per month as a deciding factor if he/she is a good trader or successful trader or whatever type of trader....
without knowing that traders lifestyle expenses...
is a tad bit absurb.
What about traders with financial problems...more dollars going out than coming in?
Think about this...I know a trader with a very expensive lifestlye...lots of bills...lots of debts...making about 10k per month...of that...he told me he is bringing home about 1.5k.
I know another trader with no debts, sharing a decent apartment in a nice neighbor with another trader...his profits is about 2.8k per month...
however...he is bringing home about 2.2k per month after all expenses.
Think about it...how many traders are here trading undercapitalized...new to the markets...trying to find a competitive edge...
and have outside expenses.
Talk about trading in a difficult situation...odds are very poor that these types of traders are going to survive current market conditions.
Simply...how much you make per month is irrelevant...
what your able to do with what you make...that has relevancy.
Isn't that what women say to their men to comfort them...
it's not what size you have...it's what your able to do with it...that's what matters
P.S. Notice how I didn't say anything about the IRS...if your still bringing home a few K's after the IRS dips into your wallet...
your doing great as a trader in business...regardless if trading conditions is easy or difficult or whatever.
NihabaAshi
Ditch, the devil is in the details (discretion). The way you bail before your stop is hit, the way you require more confirmation on some signals and not others, the way you take some signals and not others, the way you move your stop to break-even. All that makes the difference. People reading this setup wouldn't know how you do the things above. The point is.. if this had no discretion involved, yes a 12 year old could do it. But the way it is now.. no. If you really wanna help some people, start a journal with everyday chart examples of the trades and Q&A. Then the *might* be able to grasp "the rest of the story" (discretionary). And finally, trading is not easy, would you share how long it took you discover that trading was easy? I rest my case
There are things called "jobs" that can do that. You don't lay your financial future on the line just to be able to pay a few bills and maybe put some food on the table! I've never heard anything so insanely outrageous!
You go into trading to make MONEY. The more the better. Otherwise why in the world you take on such great risks?
Oh, sorry, I forgot that I'm talking to Supertrader here. I should have said, for the vast majority of people, starting trading involves a MASSIVE RISK. Why would anyone take such a MASSIVE RISK just to get the same return (and probably less) that he could after flipping burgers for a few years, with a lot less stress?
a trader making 3k per month after all his expenses to maintain whatever lifestyle he has...
3k per month...is plenty.
I am getting the distinct feeling that you don't know what you're talking about.
Trading returns aren't set in stone you know. They are notorious for changing their character in the most unexpected ways and inopportune times. (Witness the swarms of traders bemoaning current market conditions. Oh, but I forgot again, you're Supertrader.)
Given the above, 3k a month, as a sole sourece of income, TRADING income (the most unstable of all), is simply unacceptable and should only be TOLERATED on the way to greater returns.
James...
Come on...you know darn well I was using any numbers for example except for the 2 guys I know.
That 3k number could be 30k per month...300k per month or 300 dollars per month.
It doesn't matter...
trading is a business. It is a job.
That's exactly how I see it and treat it.
TRADING IS A JOB...do you get it.
It's not some hobby, not a playground and not something you go into with an half-ass effort or worrying about how much the next guy is making to verify his/her worthiness.
Why shouldn't I see trading as a business when everybody I deal with does...
my accountant see it as that way, the IRS sees it as that way, my bank account rep for my business account sees it that way, if I were to apply for any business loans...they see it as that way...whenever I go to a social function and somebody ask me what I do for a living...
I'm not shy...I proudly say I'm a Futures Trader.
Usual reply is..."what's that?"
Trading is a business for me.
I'm not in it to make some flat, fixed income per month to only say...
"Gee...I only made 4k this month in profits after expenses...I must suck at trading."
The SuperTraders your lost about are the guys that come in here and say they are making 20 points every trading day per contract...saying 10k is a bad month for them...saying 20k to 100k per month is trading...
I'm sure somebody can point you into the direction of their posts...probably wouldn't do any good to show you the SuperTraders that are posting here...
yet...what if one of those SuperTraders your so worried about is actually telling the truth...from all the regular attacks they get...
they'll never share their ultimate secret...a secret that has more to do with them instead of some fancy trade setup.
Therefore...take your debate to them if your looking for an argument with a SuperTrader.
By the way...when was the last time you drawn up a business plan for your trading?
I have a sneaky feeling...NEVER.
The second time I re-read your post...this is what I really saw...
Looks like you came in here with BLAZING GUNS looking to shoot anybody that moves.
Wow...mortgage, kids college education, property taxes, IRS...
you call that just a few bills.
I guess I'm some dumb-ass hick from the OZARKS that doesn't know what a real bill is.
Maybe you consider a subscription to eSignal a real bill
Go for it...have a nice day
P.S. Are you the same james I banned from the free chat room early last week? This is getting a little interesting.
NihabaAshi
Come on...you know darn well I was using any numbers for example except for the 2 guys I know.
That 3k number could be 30k per month...300k per month or 300 dollars per month.
It doesn't matter...
trading is a business. It is a job.
That's exactly how I see it and treat it.
TRADING IS A JOB...do you get it.
It's not some hobby, not a playground and not something you go into with an half-ass effort or worrying about how much the next guy is making to verify his/her worthiness.
Why shouldn't I see trading as a business when everybody I deal with does...
my accountant see it as that way, the IRS sees it as that way, my bank account rep for my business account sees it that way, if I were to apply for any business loans...they see it as that way...whenever I go to a social function and somebody ask me what I do for a living...
I'm not shy...I proudly say I'm a Futures Trader.
Usual reply is..."what's that?"
Trading is a business for me.
I'm not in it to make some flat, fixed income per month to only say...
"Gee...I only made 4k this month in profits after expenses...I must suck at trading."
The SuperTraders your lost about are the guys that come in here and say they are making 20 points every trading day per contract...saying 10k is a bad month for them...saying 20k to 100k per month is trading...
I'm sure somebody can point you into the direction of their posts...probably wouldn't do any good to show you the SuperTraders that are posting here...
yet...what if one of those SuperTraders your so worried about is actually telling the truth...from all the regular attacks they get...
they'll never share their ultimate secret...a secret that has more to do with them instead of some fancy trade setup.
Therefore...take your debate to them if your looking for an argument with a SuperTrader.
By the way...when was the last time you drawn up a business plan for your trading?
I have a sneaky feeling...NEVER.
The second time I re-read your post...this is what I really saw...
Looks like you came in here with BLAZING GUNS looking to shoot anybody that moves.
Wow...mortgage, kids college education, property taxes, IRS...
you call that just a few bills.
I guess I'm some dumb-ass hick from the OZARKS that doesn't know what a real bill is.
Maybe you consider a subscription to eSignal a real bill
Go for it...have a nice day
P.S. Are you the same james I banned from the free chat room early last week? This is getting a little interesting.
NihabaAshi
that you're a chat room merchant. In that case, of course trading is a business for you. In every sense of the word.
However, let me inform the gullible that heeding this advice will have you "Ashi to ashi, dust to dust" pretty quick smart.
Trading is.... Trading. Completely unlike any other 'business' you can think of. To the point that it is absurd to even consider it a 'business'.
And it certainly isn't a job. But don't listen to me, refer to your "Reminiscences", he'll tell you the same thing.
Your advice is like:
- "Honey, I've got a great idea. I think I'll quit this job paying me $60,000, that I've worked towards most of my working life, take that $50,000 we painstakingly saved up over the last ten years, and lay it all on the line in an endeavour that's most likely to fail, so that I can make $3,000 a month."
- "Sure darling, that sounds like a brilliant idea."
The SuperTraders your lost about are the guys that come in here and say they are making 20 points every trading day per contract...saying 10k is a bad month for them...saying 20k to 100k per month is trading...
That's what trading is about. That's the level you should be at if you're going to be doing this as a sole source of income. Anything less than that is lunacy. Disagree if you like, the numbers all suggest I'm speaking the truth.
However, let me inform the gullible that heeding this advice will have you "Ashi to ashi, dust to dust" pretty quick smart.
Trading is.... Trading. Completely unlike any other 'business' you can think of. To the point that it is absurd to even consider it a 'business'.
And it certainly isn't a job. But don't listen to me, refer to your "Reminiscences", he'll tell you the same thing.
Your advice is like:
- "Honey, I've got a great idea. I think I'll quit this job paying me $60,000, that I've worked towards most of my working life, take that $50,000 we painstakingly saved up over the last ten years, and lay it all on the line in an endeavour that's most likely to fail, so that I can make $3,000 a month."
- "Sure darling, that sounds like a brilliant idea."
The SuperTraders your lost about are the guys that come in here and say they are making 20 points every trading day per contract...saying 10k is a bad month for them...saying 20k to 100k per month is trading...
That's what trading is about. That's the level you should be at if you're going to be doing this as a sole source of income. Anything less than that is lunacy. Disagree if you like, the numbers all suggest I'm speaking the truth.
Quote from chasinfla:
Don't tell me getting a fill determines your edge.
yes. I've never been able to make money without getting filled.
I'm Bund, James Bund. Licensed to Fill.
I think we can all agree that the potential income from trading is virtually limitless.
I have gone from losing money every month (for about the last year of serious trading) to the beginning of this year of paying for my monthly trading expenses and having a little bit left over.
Once I get to a point of consistently making money I can increase my contract size (currently 1 ES).
If someone is consistently making $3000.00 per month, where's the problem?
This is a process of 1 step foward 2 (or is it 22) steps back.
Just some ramblings from a wanna be trader.
regards,
Bruce Hawkins
I have gone from losing money every month (for about the last year of serious trading) to the beginning of this year of paying for my monthly trading expenses and having a little bit left over.
Once I get to a point of consistently making money I can increase my contract size (currently 1 ES).
If someone is consistently making $3000.00 per month, where's the problem?
This is a process of 1 step foward 2 (or is it 22) steps back.
Just some ramblings from a wanna be trader.
regards,
Bruce Hawkins
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