"Trading as a Business" quant interview, highly recommended

Do you realise that quants are responsible for all of the stock market crashes since 87 ?

Black Scholes/Portfolio Insurance - FAIL
Value At Risk - FAIL
Gaussian Copula - FAIL

The majority of quants are developing IT systems that can ultimately be overriden by cockney barrow boys who actually know the risk and how to trade.

The whole concept of the 'big boys' employing quants to write software that will predict the direction of the markets is a MYTH.

It is however, in vogue, to go on to the interweb and claim to be a quant who can predict the markets.

It is, of course, all bullshit. Just more interweb crap to keep wannabee traders looking for a holy grail.
 
Right . .. . and quants are also responsible for the global warming and all other problems on this planet . . .

A group of nuclear physicists had invented the atomic bomb. Does this mean we should blame Dr. Ernie Chan or David Leinweber for the fact that various countries now have large nuclear arsenals? I don't think so . . .

And as far as trading is concerned, as someone once famously said:

"The average retail trader by definition does not stand a chance and the best advice to such a person is indeed: stop being average. A herd-following trader is doomed just like an artist without individuality."
 
That's pretty silly...

How is it that the quants are to blame for all these things that you list?

That's like blaming Einstein for Hiroshima or Karl Marx for the October Revolution...
 
Quote from pedro01:

Do you realise that quants are responsible for all of the stock market crashes since 87 ?



Are you sure it wasnt poor risk control or overzealous traders utilizing extreme leverage?
 
Quote from pedro01:

Do you realise that quants are responsible for all of the stock market crashes since 87 ?

Black Scholes/Portfolio Insurance - FAIL
Value At Risk - FAIL
Gaussian Copula - FAIL

The majority of quants are developing IT systems that can ultimately be overriden by cockney barrow boys who actually know the risk and how to trade.

The whole concept of the 'big boys' employing quants to write software that will predict the direction of the markets is a MYTH.

It is however, in vogue, to go on to the interweb and claim to be a quant who can predict the markets.

It is, of course, all bullshit. Just more interweb crap to keep wannabee traders looking for a holy grail.

Opinions without convincing proof are basically fertilizer.
 
Quote from Martinghoul:

That's pretty silly...

How is it that the quants are to blame for all these things that you list?

That's like blaming Einstein for Hiroshima or Karl Marx for the October Revolution...

Not at all.

Even now, the idiots that devised all of these clever formulas that got everyone selling at the same time are advocating a fix with smarter formulas.

The reliance on bad math is getting us into more and more trouble in the financial world. We are relying on smart guys that never placed a trade to tell us what the risk is.

The most usual fundamental flaw in their models is that the models don't take into account he impact of people acting on the model.

How much more suffering should we withstand at the hands of smart idiots who think that the world of finance can be quantified and who can't realise that the 5th time you see a 100 year storm in a year that it is no longer a 100 year storm ?

Of course, some blame goes on the shoulders of the people that took excessive risk because these 'smart' guys told them their risk was low - but to be honest - if it came down to the guy in the corner shop and a Quant telling me what the next big thing was - I think I'd go with the corner shop guy.
 
Quote from pedro01:

to be honest - if it came down to the guy in the corner shop and a Quant telling me what the next big thing was - I think I'd go with the corner shop guy.

As someone said, forecasting is difficult, especially if you try to forecast the future . . .

I mean, think about the people who had made a conscious, calculated bet on Google stock at the IPO price level . ..

Now THOSE people are the ultimate forecasters, if you ask me. .. I would even go so far as to call them the ULTIMATE WIZARD FORECASTERS

They're probably drinking cocktails in the Bahamas now, and enjoying the sun, while your and I are still talking :D
 
Quote from TraderZones:

Opinions without convincing proof are basically fertilizer.

It is beyond the scope of what we can post on this forum to discuss the complex formulas that keep causing massive crashes in the market.

Should we start with 1987, Black Scholes & Portfolio insurance ?

Are you in denial that the whole crash was caused by people following rules devised by mathematicians that told them to sell when the market moved against them ? That the fact that everyone was using the same rules caused the most massive drop in the markets in a single day ever ?

What is it, apart from what has been WIDELY published that is at question here ?

It is an unrefutable fact that the academic world has taken the world of finance from a practical skill to a fake science over the past 50 years.

Would you ask for proof that the world is round ?

Tell you what - have a read of this article by Pablo Triana before you reply :

http://www.wilmott.com/blogs/PabloT...2/THE-DAY-WHEN-BLACKSCHOLES-MADE-BLACKSCHOLES

The Day When Black Scholes Made Black Scholes
Posted At : August 2, 2007 1:02 AM | Posted By : Pablo Triana
Related Categories: Black-Scholes
The 1987 stock market crash highlighted the structural flaws of the model but it also unveiled its usefulness.
Imagine that you turn on the tv to check the latest news. Instantly, you feel the fear creep up inside. You turn sweaty and white-faced, still not quite comprehending what the little box at the bottom-right of the screen is displaying. Such anguish, though, would be fully understandable. WWIII it may not be, but a drop in the Dow Jones of 3000 points would surely qualify as a terrifying sight.

To the untrained eye, this fictional story seems way too fictional. After all, the market simply can´t tumble by 25% on a single day, right? Well, yes it can. In fact, a meltdown of such gigantic proportions already happened not so long ago. Only twenty years ago, to be exact. By the close of business on October 19th 1987, the Dow Jones had fallen by almost 23%. “Black Monday” was even graver in other parts of the world, with downfalls of close to 50% in some cases.

The October 87 crash is now part of financial markets legend. It was particularly important for the options markets. Bluntly stated, the crash showed that the Black-Scholes pricing model is wrong but it also motivated traders into showing why the model can be vastly useful. In effect, a Black-Scholes-demonizing event showed how reliable Black-Scholes can be in real-life.

As it is well known, so-called portfolio insurance strategies (which were heavily employed at the time of the crash) have been widely blamed for at least accelerating the market´s meltdown on that fateful Monday. Portfolio insurance was an attempt to synthetically replicate a short equity put position via Black-Scholes-inspired dynamic hedging techniques (which are, of course, at the very heart of the model´s machinery). Thus, as Black-Scholes dictates, insurers would sell the underlying when the market fell and would have to buy when it rose. Assuming that the underlying assumptions of perfect liquidity and continuous trading held, one could build a synthetic put in this manner, and in principle be protected from a market downturn.

As the stock market embarked on a bull run at the beginning of the 80s, portfolio insurers would have been forced to follow the herd upward. As the size of the portfolio pool being dynamically “protected” grew significantly, the required buying would have become larger and larger. Portfolio insurance, thus, quite likely provided a non-irrelevant push to the bullish market.

When the severe correction began to take place in mid-October 87, portfolio insurance-motivated selling helped drag the market to unknown depths (in terms of daily negative returns). Trading became illiquid and discontinuous and dynamic hedging inevitably broke down.

Many “insured” parties ended up with no protection from the ensuing mayhem. The crash (which could well be seen as Black-Scholes-inspired) thus unequivocably showed that the model is built on shaky foundations. In the real world, perfectly-replicating dynamic hedging is merely an illusion.

But at the same time, something funny happened as a direct result of the crash. The currently ubiquitous volatility smile was born, a reflection of freshly-developed crashophobia on the part of traders. After witnessing the massacre, it became clear to options pros that markets cannot be assumed to behave “normally” (as the mathematics behind Black-Scholes assume) and that rare events do happen and can be truly criminal. Traders realized that they had been hopelessly undervaluing crash-protecting out-of-the-money puts.

To correct for the mathematical insanity of Black-Scholes, now only too obvious, implied volatility was manipulated upwards so that the values of options with strikes at the extremes could be significantly pumped up, giving birth to the smile. Prior to the 87 crash, dealers had been content to charge the same volatility independent of the strike level, and the chart plotting implied volatility and strikes was more or less horizontally flat, exactly as the “pure” version of Black-Scholes would dictate. After a 20-sigma event in Wall Street option pros decided to change tact and take protective measures. The smile became such protection, and very graphically illustrated Black-Scholes’ number one comparative advantage, the real reason why it is embraced: a built-in self-correcting mechanism that very easily lets users correct for any theoretical nonsense and deliver reliable outputs. Conveniently allowing traders to adapt the model to real-world realities, Black-Scholes proved its practical worth.

In sum, the same event that highlighted the untrustworthiness of the model (which internal mechanics, arguably, contributed to the event taking place in the first place) helped underscore the reasons for its wild popularity. By producing the volatility smile, traders effectively rescued Black-Scholes from its self-dug graveyard.
 
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