Trading and Job

Dogballoon · Aug 19, 2006

Quote from coolweb:

I have made quite a few bucks in business,

Here is the view:

In business, its all about skills, less about capital. If you have a unique method, unique product, unique method of selling, dawn of the golden age (opportunity) such as the internet, you can startup from $500 and turn it into a million dollar business after 3-5 years of constant work.

In trading, its all about skills, a little more about capital, so the same as in business, you need to obtain that unique "edge" to make money.

The difference between trading and business is , opportunities do not come everyday from business unless you are in the "common" business such as restaurants/ stores etc. If you are in the high tech business, opportunities come in waves.

The good thing about trading is, opportunities come in waves but you can develop methods to exploit smaller methods so it becomes more consistent.

For a successful trader, to turn $1million dollars into $1.3 million dollars, is not very hard.

So you need capital

For a business owner, to turn $1million dollars into $1.3 million dollars is VERY hard, because CAPITAL is not easily deployable, you don't go out buying aleron chairs or new office space to make more money, but its more of a step by step method. Money can not be spent easily.

So it sums down to

trading = massively scaleable, if you have capital
business = not very scaleable but requires less capital, but just as good.

Trading = business, just a higher level of business.

Great post coolweb.

Traveler · Aug 19, 2006

I think 2x is a good multiplier for self-employed vs. job. You have to make more $$$ to account for lack of benefits and job security plus risk of loss.

smilingsynic · Aug 19, 2006

Quote from Cristrader:

Does anyone here have (or have had) the experience of trading (leaning, searching, trading, etc) and working full time? When did you decide to quit your job (or not even have one)?
Thanks!

I've done it for ten years. I love both of my jobs, and at this point I cannot see myself quitting or retiring from either one.

4re · Aug 19, 2006

Quote from smilingsynic:

I've done it for ten years. I love both of my jobs, and at this point I cannot see myself quitting or retiring from either one.

I am sure glad to see that I am not the only one. I don't know you but I bet you are more relaxed when you trade than most. The reason being: you aren't running from anything. Not putting pressure to win on yourself. Makes A big difference.

TradeWarrior310 · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from 4re:

Tradewarrior,
I hate to be a cynic here but when you say even the worst traders could have made 300 - 400% this week I have to worry. The best traders on Wallstreet are happy to make 20 - 30% a year. They are considered gods if they do this. Then you are looking at a market that has more competition than any other in the world and expect to take 500 bucks into running a hedgefund with OPM. This is just plain nuts. At least with 500 bucks you won't go broke if you bust your account.

Sorry but you are going to have to have A LOT of skill and enough luck to win every lottery in the US to do this.

I do wish you well,
4re

Well I said the worst traders, meaning that very loosely...I mean people who know how to trade but take the least money out of the market...not literally the worst traders...and also I said 100% for them, not 300 to 400%. A good trader could have easily made 1500 to 2500 bucks on 1 contract last week and I don't think that's stretching the truth.

Where did I say anything about starting a hedge fund with 500 bucks? Maybe you misunderstood where I was coming from there, that would be far down the road. I don't think I'd ever start one with any amount personally, was throwing in as an idea in my post but it's not an ambition of mine anyway. Really, first things first I want to build a profitable trading business over time.

If you think averaging 2 to 4 points a day on the E-mini S & P means having enough luck to win multiple lotteries I do think you may be overly cynical my friend!

Do you trade for a living? How have you done with your trading?

4re · Aug 20, 2006

Quote from TradeWarrior310:

Well I said the worst traders, meaning that very loosely...I mean people who know how to trade but take the least money out of the market...not literally the worst traders...and also I said 100% for them, not 300 to 400%. A good trader could have easily made 1500 to 2500 bucks on 1 contract last week and I don't think that's stretching the truth.

Where did I say anything about starting a hedge fund with 500 bucks? Maybe you misunderstood where I was coming from there, that would be far down the road. I don't think I'd ever start one with any amount personally, was throwing in as an idea in my post but it's not an ambition of mine anyway. Really, first things first I want to build a profitable trading business over time.

If you think averaging 2 to 4 points a day on the E-mini S & P means having enough luck to win multiple lotteries I do think you may be overly cynical my friend!

Do you trade for a living? How have you done with your trading?

If you are looking for 2 to 4 points a day that is very doable. Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at. But I have seen so many people start working all these numbers in their minds thinking it is easy and that is usually their first and worst mistake.

To answer your last question No, I am not a fulltime trader at this time. But have been a profitable trader for the last 13 years. If and when I retire or sell my company then I will trade full time but I will probably still just go for my 2 ES points a day and be done for the day

Still, I wish you good luck/skill
4re

4DTrader · Jun 29, 2008

Quote from Cristrader:

Does anyone here have (or have had) the experience of trading (leaning, searching, trading, etc) and working full time? When did you decide to quit your job (or not even have one)?
Thanks!

I do. I work at Wal-mart, I am a proud Wal-mart associate. I was once "Employee of the Month." I trade STOCK during the day, hence day trading, and STOCK the shelves at Wal-mart during the night. So I deal with STOCK day and night, sometimes I even dream of stocking.

TraderZones · Jun 29, 2008

Quote from 4DTrader:

I do. I work at Wal-mart, I am a proud Wal-mart associate. I was once "Employee of the Month." I trade STOCK during the day, hence day trading, and STOCK the shelves at Wal-mart during the night. So I deal with STOCK day and night, sometimes I even dream of stocking.

WHY do you feel compelled to drag up a thread that has been inactive for 22 months?

The person you responded to hasn't put out a post since Sept. 2006...

lilduckling · Jun 29, 2008

Quote from TraderZones:WHY do you feel compelled to drag up a thread that has been inactive for 22 months?The person you responded to hasn't put out a post since Sept. 2006...

who cares?!...... people can respond to whatever they want.

are you the post boss?

HSC.1775 · Jun 29, 2008

Quote from LondonUSTrader:

3. Forget prop. As an ex prop futures trader it is not worth it unless you get paid a salary to support yourself while learning. No salary forget about it. Besides, prop trading creates extra pressure which you don't need when learning.

All "prop" deals are not the same! Just because of the prevalence of so many bucket shops does not mean good firms with good deals are not available.