Trading and Disappearing Liquidity

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bearnine

I have been trading 2+ years now scalping... highly liquidity stocks with thick penny spreads.. lately i have been noticing more and more as the exact moment i hit the bid / lift the offer the ENTIRE level will disapear.


I have notice it a lot lately... at first i thought it was the managed routes front running my orders or selling out the information of my orders to other parties... more recently though i noticed it happening when using ECNs.

example, i JUST put in an order to buy 5k at the offer, the moment i placed it the ENTIRE level flipped up, and its not like they were banging on this level the time and sales was quiet until i placed the order.

there was ATLEAST 30k in liquidity on the offer, i got 0 shares

I am now suspecting that my firm or possibilty the platform is selling out information on order flow and positions

At first i thought it would be better to do 1k 1k 1k 1k 1k but i didnt want it to start printing on the time and sales and then they would really have the tip off

If i see liquidity on nasdaq for 10k and then i hit nasdaq for 10k, it is a split second decision , how can they even front run my orders that fast, in miliseconds, is it possible?

any comments appreciated....
 
This is true, it happens to me too. I post my observation here several months ago, though I don't know where is that post now.
My guess is that a lot of orders are probably from MM which use computerized order to maintain the liquidity. This market really lack of volume and volatility.
What I do now is buy at asking, sell at bidding or even lower than bidding.
 
What you gotta do sonny is give them the old fake-a-roo like I used too back in the gory days.

Put an offer in at 5k and then when they flip it HIT THEM AT THE BID WITH 20K. BOOM MOTHA TRUCKAS GET AT IT. YOU WANT SOME OF THIS. UHHHHHHHHHHH HUHHHHHHHH!!!!
 
Quote from actionzip54:

What you gotta do sonny is give them the old fake-a-roo like I used too back in the gory days.

Put an offer in at 5k and then when they flip it HIT THEM AT THE BID WITH 20K. BOOM MOTHA TRUCKAS GET AT IT. YOU WANT SOME OF THIS. UHHHHHHHHHHH HUHHHHHHHH!!!!
More...

lmao
 
LOL

I have been thinking stuff like that like let me size the bid then cancel because then they will think that someone is actually on the offer on the other side but really i'm still on the bid

but really its getting rediculous that i have to think this hard just to disguise my position

i'm trying to figure out at what level my information is being given away at, the routes? the ECN? the exchange?

i'm not sure how these fuckers are getting the jump on me for god sakes no matter how fast i press the key they still got me
 
i have noticed similar i want to believe that its an algorithm with deep pockets behind it just trying to shake us out and pick up shares on the cheap but if the firms are sellin us out im a disgruntled employee lol... id be interested to hear anyone's strategy mine is sort of a swing trade intraday while adding liquidity on all orders on highly liquid routes but im a noobe to rebates so i know i could be more effective if anyone has any pointers as to routes midpoints etc id much appreciate any insight
 
Quote from bearnine:

example, i JUST put in an order to buy 5k at the offer, ....

there was ATLEAST 30k in liquidity on the offer, i got 0 shares
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I'm no expert on ECNs but could it be that the offer was really an ask with fractional decimals, that appeared cheaper than it actually was, and used in combination with a stop to cancel the offer?
 
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