Trading Advice

Quote from BSAM:

Well, I mean, yeah, there have been a few people who can run the mile under 4 minutes. And there have been a few men set foot on the moon. But, when you start talking about becoming a successful trader in "several weeks", only two words come to mind: NO WAY!
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Sorry to disagree. I just finished teaching a student how to daytrade the S&P futures. It took six weeks, chatting an average of one hour a day, not including Fridays and Saturdays, and not including the Passover Holidays. He started trading live last week and is several thousand dollars up on his account already. I am still part-time watching the market together with him, but he has the method down pat and is calling the shots and pulling the trigger himself. Again, it may be that daytrading stocks is more complicated, I wouldn't know. Also, if you're talking about someone who has never traded before, then I agree it will take a lot longer, but I was under the impression we're discussing someone who does have some experience with trading.

All the best,

Phil
 
Quote from splphil:

Sorry to disagree. I just finished teaching a student how to daytrade the S&P futures. It took six weeks, chatting an average of one hour a day, not including Fridays and Saturdays, and not including the Passover Holidays. He started trading live last week and is several thousand dollars up on his account already. I am still part-time watching the market together with him, but he has the method down pat and is calling the shots and pulling the trigger himself. Again, it may be that daytrading stocks is more complicated, I wouldn't know. Also, if you're talking about someone who has never traded before, then I agree it will take a lot longer, but I was under the impression we're discussing someone who does have some experience with trading.

All the best,

Phil
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Hi Phil,

The question is this...

Are you teaching in person or via online or both?

There's a world of difference trying to teach someone via messages at a discussion forum like ET in comparison to sitting side by side with someone.

I highly recommend any trader that's serious about trading and wants to learn from someone else after they've exhausted the self-taught method to do the latter...

Side by side in realtime with the teacher trading from his/her own account in front of the trader.

No simulation crap and no in person hindsight education...real trading.

What I'm saying...its possible BSAM was talking about those traders trying to learn how to be successful trader in a few days or weeks via message board posts...

Whereas you could be talking about something completely different...

Side by side in person teaching.

Then of course there's the other issue...not only should the teacher have the ability to teach...the student needs to have the ability to learn...

Regardless if its mentoring or self-taught.

I remember spending afternoons on weekends watching and studying videotapes of techniques in the sport I competed in preparation for upcoming tournaments...

It's an ok method of learning but practicing those same techniques live with someone much better than I...

Shorten the learning curve considerable along with me developing that intuition or feel for the technique.

In addition, you'll be surprise how many struggling traders are out there that absolutely DO NOT want to learn or share in person (side by side) from another trader in their city/area during real trading...

Even when such is offered freely so that they can proudly say I did it my way or because it may be an inconvenience.

Simply...self-taught...give it a few years.

In person side by side with someone that can teach and by someone that wants to learn...could be weeks or months especially if its an ongoing process for that entire duration.

I'll repeat what Dave (wdscott) said...

Trading is a profession. With an enormous level of commitment. Treat it as such.
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Last of all...good luck all...today should be a nice volatile day in the market.

To fear volatility is to fear profits.

NihabaAshi
 
NihabaAshi,

If that's what he referred to, then I definitely agree! Actually, maybe not. If someone's trying to learn how to trade from forum posts, I'm not sure he'll EVER get to profitable trading! There's only two ways to learn: either by learning from someone or putting in a lot of time studying the market, then studying it even more, coming up with a trading method that suits the specific personality of that trader, and then backtesting it vigorously. The latter is probably the ideal, but many traders aren't willing to put in the time and effort...

It's more than just forum postings. I think it's difficult to learn how to trade properly from ANY "static" media. I'm actually considering not selling the trading manual of my method that I've written because of this reason. The amount of follow-up needed by most is more than I want to put into it...

About teaching: I personally do my teaching by live realtime chat for the reasons you expressed. Although it is not the exact same as sitting side-by-side, it is almost the same, and it actually has some advantages that side-by-side DOESN'T have!

All the best,

Phil
 
I have to agree 007Arb regarding the looking for short cuts, but since you asked for some help, real briefly, this is what I have to say.

First and formemost, you need to protect yourself from yourself. Unless that 500k is walking around money to you, and I doubt it is, you got to get it out of a trading account. If it is, like a susbpect, an inheritance representing a liftetime of work and dedication of some beloved relatives, please please please take 475K and go buy a three year T-Bill or CD that YOU CANNOT TOUCH no matter what. There is a HUGE gambling mental defect to many peoples trading that does not get triggered until get that trading bug. Most small account HAVE to be refunded within 3 months of opening. No matter what, DO NOT IN ANY put that 500k into that category. If it is in a brokerage account, unitl you have proven otherwise with a several year track record, you have the potential to blow the whole thing up.

Next, learn to trade one thing. If you are going to day trade, that one thing has to Breakouts. Trade them in one lot contracts or 100 shares and learn them inside and out. Realize that most breakouts fail and learn what that looks like. Learn what type of products - stocks or futures break out the best.

Learn what time of day to trade and what time of day to avoid. Learn this one thing better than anything. Learn what type of days tend to precede large breakout days and what types of days tend precede chop days. Learn breakouts like the back of your hand.

If you cant make money at breakouts, it is unlikely you will make doing anything else.

Get ready to have to trade at least 2-3000 round trips before you start to get a good feel for it - especially since most of them fail and how to get yourself out with minimum damage - because failed breakouts can go the other hard and fast and if you are just sitting there blinking, it will hurt you.

Now get to WORK.

Best,

Mike
 
Still think the TASR Strategy is a bad idea :D

Seriously, the guy could be up $300 or more on his $3K by now.....

Well, back to real trading....
 
IMHO the most important thing in daytrading is to understand the trading days behavior to know what to expect.Then trade in the direction of the futures.Of course you must first know the basics like money management , execution and chart reading.This is a very simplistic view but it can be very simple.Dont get caught up with gadgets,fancy indicators and guru's teaching stuff that worked in differnt market environments.

If you want super simple.I think shorting parabolic runs or buying parabolic drops require the least amount of technical knowledge .Other than buy and hold in a bull market,but thats not daytrading.

Good luck

:)
 
Sorry but thats the stupidest suggestion I have ever heard.Sure its ok to start with 3k and cheap commissions.It is also ok to learn the mannerisms of 1 stock,lots of people trade only 1 stock.But TASR will take his money in a heart beat.The thing trades wild as all hell sometimes.Not to mention what will happen when Tasr's personality changes and the fact that he will gain no technical knowledge.
:D :D :D :D :D
 
Enkidu007,

By now -- considering the responses to your post (and tones of such) -- it might be obvious there are numerous paths to success and failure for investors and traders. Regardless of whether their remarks were covered in honey or vinegar, the people suggesting hard work, study and prudence were those probably offering you the best advice.

To those responses, i add only one thought: read "Pit Bull" by Marty Schwartz. His story highlights the characterstics of a profitable trader.

Regards,

Steve
 
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