TradeStation charging margin liquidation fee during 15 minute halt

[Scataphagos]

Scataphagos-have you ever entered an order during that time?

No, I've always shut down at 4:15. I called the futures broker... he said "today's trading day ends at 5:00PM ET, and to have overnight margins met by 4:55, if applicable." I don't know if it's the same for listed exchanges.

CME saying, "settlement in the ESM is calculated at 4:15", seems inconsistent.

 

[CannonTrading_Ilan]

No, I've always shut down at 4:15. I called the futures broker... he said "today's trading day ends at 5:00PM ET, and to have overnight margins met by 4:55, if applicable." I don't know if it's the same for listed exchanges.

CME saying, "settlement in the ESM is calculated at 4:15", seems inconsistent.

The closing price will sometimes vary based on the platform and vendor when it comes to the Index futures like ES. The official CME equity settlement is based on the 4:15 PM close.

As far as margins are concerned, we like to see our clients fully margined by 4:55 PM EST or 5 minutes before the close, on Fridays a bit earlier....we dont look at the 4:15 mark since the market simply pause and then resumes at 4:30 EST and officially closes for an hour at 5 PM EST

 

[Gonzo86]

I was under the impression the day doesn't end until the one hour pause starts at 5pm ET. Then the new day begins at 6pm ET. I assumed so since the first trading day starts at 6pm ET on Sunday.

Do all brokers end their intraday margin rates at 4:15pm ET? If you're negative at 4:15pm ET, do all brokerages charge a margin call fee? Thanks for the information.

The closing price will sometimes vary based on the platform and vendor when it comes to the Index futures like ES. The official CME equity settlement is based on the 4:15 PM close.

As far as margins are concerned, we like to see our clients fully margined by 4:55 PM EST or 5 minutes before the close, on Fridays a bit earlier....we dont look at the 4:15 mark since the market simply pause and then resumes at 4:30 EST and officially closes for an hour at 5 PM EST

This is what I expected the rule to be. Be fully margined by 5PM ET (or a few minutes before). That is why I have twice been caught off guard by TradeStation's fully margined by 4:15PM ET rule.

I contacted AMP and they have the same rule as Cannon Trading: must be fully margined by 4:55PM ET.

I'm posting this as a PSA so others are aware of TradeStation's margin rule and how you will now be charged $75 immediately. I ended up calling in and getting the fee waived this time but they said zero tolerance for the next one.

 

[Gonzo86]

If you are getting margin calls, you are over leveraged. Reduce your size.

That's not the point but thanks for the useless input. The entire point of margin is to use it for intraday trading. The point of this thread is that the timing for "intraday trading" is not what one would expect at TradeStation. One would expect the rule is to be fully margined by the time the market closes, i.e., approximately 4:55PM ET. However, at TradeStation the rule is to be fully margined before the 15 minute pause at 4:15PM ET.

 

[Gonzo86]

ES Futures trade from Sunday at 6pm ET to Monday 4:15 ET. That is Monday's Trading day. The CME expects the margin to be available based on the maintenance level at that time. If you do not have that, they expect you to add money or liquidate to be above the Initial requirement the following trading session. The exchange requirement is the minimum and your broker/FCM can require more. If you have the privilege of excess margin for day trading, you should respect that and not exceed that at end of day. If you exceed your margin that day, we do not charge a margin fee that day, we start to charge on day 2. Keep in mind that this equity needs to be meet so your FCM must use their capital to meet it if you do not. If you continue to get margin calls we would remove your day trading excess and set you to 100% or higher.

It's great client service that you do not charge a fee the first day.

Do your systems flag an account as being under margined at 4:15PM ET as opposed to 4:55PM ET? Do you ever margin liquidate or send a margin call notice to clients at 4:15PM ET? Thanks for the input.

 

[Gonzo86]

As far as margins are concerned, we like to see our clients fully margined by 4:55 PM EST or 5 minutes before the close, on Fridays a bit earlier....we dont look at the 4:15 mark since the market simply pause and then resumes at 4:30 EST and officially closes for an hour at 5 PM EST

This has been my experience. I had no issue earlier this week getting an order through between 4:30PM ET and 5PM ET.