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Traders who win but really have no clear strategy
- Thread starter Sky123987
- Start date
Quick story in relation to the topic. For a few years up until Reg NMS was implemented I made a living on an automated strategy gaming specialists. That system died with Reg NMS and I had to re-invent my trading again. There was a particular trader I knew that traded from instinct/gut and that's what I set out to learn. I knew if I could learn that then so long as the market moved, I would be able to earn a living. At this point I literally was making no money trading. I shut down my bot even though it was still slightly profitable so I could focus 100% on the new way of trading.
Fortunately based on past experience I was a good enough trader to start making some money nearly immediately. I was able to fine tune things, and when the market volatility went nuts in '07-08 I was able to capitalize. I don't read any news pre or post market. Every day is new, just trading whatever is volatile. Breakouts, reversions, scalps whatever...
I'm so glad I decided to move my trading in this direction. No more gimmicky trading that can die overnight. Highly recommended to those trying to find a direction.
Fortunately based on past experience I was a good enough trader to start making some money nearly immediately. I was able to fine tune things, and when the market volatility went nuts in '07-08 I was able to capitalize. I don't read any news pre or post market. Every day is new, just trading whatever is volatile. Breakouts, reversions, scalps whatever...
I'm so glad I decided to move my trading in this direction. No more gimmicky trading that can die overnight. Highly recommended to those trying to find a direction.
Quote from Dustin:
Quick story in relation to the topic. For a few years up until Reg NMS was implemented I made a living on an automated strategy gaming specialists. That system died with Reg NMS and I had to re-invent my trading again. There was a particular trader I knew that traded from instinct/gut and that's what I set out to learn. I knew if I could learn that then so long as the market moved, I would be able to earn a living. At this point I literally was making no money trading. I shut down my bot even though it was still slightly profitable so I could focus 100% on the new way of trading.
Fortunately based on past experience I was a good enough trader to start making some money nearly immediately. I was able to fine tune things, and when the market volatility went nuts in '07-08 I was able to capitalize. I don't read any news pre or post market. Every day is new, just trading whatever is volatile. Breakouts, reversions, scalps whatever...
I'm so glad I decided to move my trading in this direction. No more gimmicky trading that can die overnight. Highly recommended to those trying to find a direction.
Do you have a robotic trade exit strategy(even if its mental)? Or are your exits also based on the spot thinking?
Just wondering as I think this is where most traders struggle.
It doesn't matter how much instinct one animal has...
There is always another animal looking down upon it as a prey and then the predator itself eventually becomes prey to another animal.
Simply, you can't just rely exclusively on instincts because eventually something else comes along with better instincts and better attack skills.
Predator --> Prey (predator) ---> Prey
With that said, as long as we aren't talking about an automatic mechanical system, most traders are not able to utilize their trading instincts which is why most traders have discipline problems...ultimately getting lost in the forest and consumed by whatever awaits them there.
Therefore, profitable traders that trade on instincts seldom have discipline problems and that in itself is an edge that most traders do not have.
Mark
There is always another animal looking down upon it as a prey and then the predator itself eventually becomes prey to another animal.
Simply, you can't just rely exclusively on instincts because eventually something else comes along with better instincts and better attack skills.
Predator --> Prey (predator) ---> Prey
With that said, as long as we aren't talking about an automatic mechanical system, most traders are not able to utilize their trading instincts which is why most traders have discipline problems...ultimately getting lost in the forest and consumed by whatever awaits them there.
Therefore, profitable traders that trade on instincts seldom have discipline problems and that in itself is an edge that most traders do not have.
Mark
just as a mother lion teachers her cubs to hunt and they spar with each other learning to fight,after a certain amount of time they are on their own, eventually if you are not eaten alive, u learn how to survive as a trader , discipline is just common sense,famously beleived to be the the most uncommon of all senses
Quote from ammo:
just as a mother lion teachers her cubs to hunt and they spar with each other learning to fight,after a certain amount of time they are on their own, eventually if you are not eaten alive, u learn how to survive as a trader , discipline is one of those skills
True.
Also, I think there was a popular thread in the past here at ET where members talked about life experiences that helped them be better prepared for trading.
Thus, in reality, those other experiences in are our sparring sessions.
Mark
Sorry to sound the alarm bell, but you folks got it all wrong. Don't think in terms of what you might need to possess in order to succeed. On the contrary, find out what makes most traders fail and you'll get your ticket to ride at last. Negative reinforcement works like a charm in this game.
It's nice to see some of the heavy hitters from older (and current) P/L threads chiming in.
I have a long way to go, but discretionary/gut trading is becoming more of a part of my trading as time goes on. I've been running an API for quite a while now, and a while back I realized I was becoming complacent as hell. In short I was a lazy bastard who would wait for a trade to show up on my blotter while reading ET or the Drudge report. Although the API makes me consistent money, I know there is more out there.
My first clue was a day in October when the market was absolutely nose diving. The API was shut off because of connectivity issues, so I was just watching the futures. There was a point in the day where, even though I had no risk on the table, I actually said out loud to my dog, "Oh my god". That sudden wave of fear for the financial system as a whole marked the bottom for the day. This happened a couple more times over the next few weeks and really caught my attention. It made me realize I was sensing the fear of others, and there was opportunity there.
Problem is, I just started applying this realization recently, and I'm still on 100 - 200 share lots. Oh well, baby steps.
Some of you guys are light years ahead of the rest of us, but this thread is refreshing in confirming you don't have to be a math/programming wizard to win at this crazy game.
I have a long way to go, but discretionary/gut trading is becoming more of a part of my trading as time goes on. I've been running an API for quite a while now, and a while back I realized I was becoming complacent as hell. In short I was a lazy bastard who would wait for a trade to show up on my blotter while reading ET or the Drudge report. Although the API makes me consistent money, I know there is more out there.
My first clue was a day in October when the market was absolutely nose diving. The API was shut off because of connectivity issues, so I was just watching the futures. There was a point in the day where, even though I had no risk on the table, I actually said out loud to my dog, "Oh my god". That sudden wave of fear for the financial system as a whole marked the bottom for the day. This happened a couple more times over the next few weeks and really caught my attention. It made me realize I was sensing the fear of others, and there was opportunity there.
Problem is, I just started applying this realization recently, and I'm still on 100 - 200 share lots. Oh well, baby steps.
Some of you guys are light years ahead of the rest of us, but this thread is refreshing in confirming you don't have to be a math/programming wizard to win at this crazy game.