traders who are deeply religious

Quote from JohnnyK:


I haven't yet come to a conclusion.
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big%20lebowski.jpg


Like, listen, man, that's cuz you're not privy to the new shit...
 
Quote from TheConMan:

I see someone killing an innocent person. What do I do? Do I (a) Wring my hands and leave them alone? or (b) make an effort to put the crime to a stop which could result in harm to me or (c) put to bear a collection of superior resources and stop the crime.

From your citation, apparently the Catholic Church picked choice (a). Although at that time the Church had the "moral" authority and the resources to bear against Spain and choose choice (c), the Church chose not to. Therefore your citation either condemns the Catholic Church because of its inaction to (i) Cowardice, or condemns the catholic church to, (ii) complicity in these crimes because the Church itself was a political organization and needed to further its political ambitions. This complicity later to be historically revised and expunged by the very powerful Church.


As with all revisionists, you chose to post information that takes the base argument off to a tangential culprit. To absolve the criminal involvement of the Church in these crimes is a crime against humanity itself. Here is more from Wikipedia:

The Inquisition was an institution within the Roman Catholic Church, charged with the eradication of heresy, sometimes by violent means.

Heresies (from Greek haeresis, sect, school of belief) were a problem to the Church and the Faith. Biblical lore Acts 15 recounts the convening of a council in Jerusalem to deal with the heresy of the Judaizers, who had contended with the Jerusalem faction in Asia and especially Galatia. In the subsequent centuries there were the Arians and Manicheans; in the Middle Ages there were the Cathari and Waldenses; and in the Renaissance there were the Hussites, Lutherans, Calvinists, and Rosicrucians. Efforts to suppress heresies were initially ad hoc, but in the Middle Ages a permanent structure came into being to combat heresies. The Church deemed it according to the public good to remove these heretics from the public, or at least to correct them , as the Church held that the eternal good of one's soul depends on it's adherence to the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church. Although it was originally the state who began the reprimanding of heretics, it eventually fell in the hands of the Church in the late middle ages. Citations follow.

This guy has an extensive website detailing various aspects of war crimes and the means of torture that the Catholic Church was complicit in. http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1676.cfm

In the middle ages, "Heretics" were mercilessly tortured and murdered during the Inquisition. Although the church has softened its attitude toward non-Catholic beliefs in more recent times, the distrust and dislike of intellectual and religious freedom continued. As recently as 1888, Pope Leo XIII declared, "it is quite unlawful to demand, to defend, or to grant unconditional freedom of thought, of speech, or writing, or of worship, as if these were so many rights given by nature to man. For, if nature had really granted them, it would be lawful to refuse obedience to God."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/l...ments/hf_l-xiii_enc_20061888_libertas_en.html

In other words, do what we tell you to do. You are not allowed to think. I find that interesting since God created man with free-will. Therefore God intended man to question and arrive to logical conclusions as to the nature of his existence. With the above doctrine, the church inherently goes against the very construct of Gods intention for man.


Arguing Church criminality with a Fundamentalist Catholic cultist is like arguing the Bastardization of the Islamic religion with a Fundamentalist rag head. One can point out endless inconsistencies in their faulty religion and yet they will cling to their beliefs like a infant clings to its mothers tits. This will be my last comment on this issue as there is preponderous and over-whelming historical evidence online and elsewhere regarding the Catholic Churches complicity in mass murder and genocide against non-catholics.
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Con Man you seem to live up to your name. I asked you to back up your statements. You come back out of context quotes. Had you bothered to read the essay you quoted you would have read a magnificently crafted essay supporting a persons right to liberty because mans rights come from God. The pope noted that you have liberty but it should be constrained. For instance the freedom or press should be constrained by the fact that you should write the truth. This is not unlike the current law in the U.S.


Next you confused inquisitions. You seem to be attempting to link up the Inquistion with the Spanish Inquistion. How many people are you arguing were killed by the Inquistion?

You call me a revisionist --- all I did was ask for your version of events regarding the heinous crimes and mass annihaliation of people or however your headline was framed.

You failed to provide any substance. You cite me to some crack pots that do not even support your intial rant.

And you start your post by arguing the Chruch could have stopped the heinous crimes but did not so - it is guilty.

Well by that logic so is every major country in the world is guilty of all the genocide and GWB was right in attacking Iraq. Is that really your logic?
 
I have it from first hand knowledge that the so-called Yeti is nothing more than a large, hairy and foul smelling humanoid creature. This comes from a close personal friend who is decendant from tribes that live around the Himalayan base forests. Apparently the female of the species carry away human males into the forest for sexual gratification purposes.

As for Extra terrestials, many ancient people have sagas that revolve around ET. The Dogon tribe worship amphibious ET gods called Nommo. The Nommo apparantly imparted knowledge of the Sirius star system to the Dogons 5000 years ago. Scroll down the link. http://www.crystalinks.com/amphibiousgods.html

The ancient sumerians also have similar fish god mythology based around their fish god Enki http://alexm.here.ru/mirrors/www.enteract.com/jwalz/Eliade/016.html.

Space craft and ET are prevalant in ancient mythology in cultures across the planet. Korean indigeneous tribes have a mythology of space craft crash landing in their mountains 3000 years ago.





Quote from JohnnyK:

Continuing the investigation...


I will start off by examining evidence for benevolent ET activity...and then look at the evidence for ET activity with an agenda toward enslavement.


Recently I met the author of the book "Psychic Sasquatch" who has been communicating with these beings for 27 years now. I found him to emanate a ton of compassion, expressing alot of love for humanity and creation. His love for animal life also results in close encounters with winged creatures on a regular basis.

 
I agree with you. The Catholic Church is a harmless organization. Do you then suggest we all stay quiet and let them continue raping young boys?








Quote from jem:

Next you confused inquisitions. You seem to be attempting to link up the Inquistion with the Spanish Inquistion. How many people are you arguing were killed by the Inquistion?

You call me a revisionist --- all I did was ask for your version of events regarding the heinous crimes and mass annihaliation of people or however your headline was framed.

You failed to provide any substance. You cite me to some crack pots that do not even support your intial rant.

And you start your post by arguing the Chruch could have stopped the heinous crimes but did not so - it is guilty.

Well by that logic so is every major country in the world is guilty of all the genocide and GWB was right in attacking Iraq. Is that really your logic?
 
Quote from TheConMan:

I have it from first hand knowledge that the so-called Yeti is nothing more than a large, hairy and foul smelling humanoid creature. This comes from a close personal friend who is decendant from tribes that live around the Himalayan base forests. Apparently the female of the species carry away human males into the forest for sexual gratification purposes.

The author of "Psychic Sasquatch" confirms this with these qualifications:

The male of the species are the ones that can stink and it is a defense or warning mechanism to ward off what, or whomever, for whichever reason. The females do not stink. That's good because, yes, they sometimes wish to mate with a human to strenthen their gene pool. They can be very polite about it, and if what you say is true, very enthusiastic about it. Maybe indeed it is just for the satisfaction.


And of course, he would not describe them as "just a...". Why such intelligent beings have chosen to be hairy, I don't know. But one eyewitness described a female of the Ancient Ones Nation as "gorgeous". There are five races of Sasquatch, and another race called the Ancient Ones.

JohnnyK
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Quote from TheConMan:

The Catholic church is a political organization disguised as a religious cult. This political organization has carried out, financed and supported some of the most egregious and heinous crimes against humanity. From the inquisition, the crusades, to political intrigue and wide-spread murder of political opponents by burning at the stake in the middle ages, to the recent pervasive condoning of widespread child rape. The crimes of mass murder against humanity were carried out under the disguise of being condoned by god.

Once the historical crimes against humanity of the catholic political organization are brought into perspective, the rest of what it stands for becomes irrelevant. Its members do not wish to recognize these crimes. After all they are good cult members. As I have posted earlier, much of its christian teachings are divergent from what Christ taught and observed himself. A good God would never sanction, nor tolerate the existence of such a evil organization that supposedly exists to carry out His word.
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You ConMan have resorted to a very weak argument. Just because I have shown some of your statements to be less than accurate does not mean that I am on the other pole. You accused Cathlics of being part of a Cult. I have read Chick publications and many other sites out there. Many misrepresent the teachings of the Chruch. Others misrepresent history.

I for one am a Catholic that is having trouble attending Mass because of the lack of cleansing of the Priesthood. I have written a published letter to the editor of a one of the most influential Catholic magazines on the subject questioning how the Church could not be taking stronger measures. (my only letter to an editor ever.)

But I can not sit and read your accusations without comment. I asked you to back them up and you seemed to have failed miserably.

The chruches teachings are viturally all bible based. For you to make claims about how the Chruches teachings are divergent from the teachings of Christ reveals to me a person who has not studied the teachings of the Chruch. You should realise that the massive majority if not all the Catholic Churches teachings are based on the bible and particularly the Gospel while many of the Protestant's divergent teachings are solely based on Luther's and his contemporaries interperations of Pauls writings.

I will also have you know that church does not recrucify Christ in every Mass and that the Chruches' belief in communion is the perfect embodiment of Christ's own words in our world today. Try reading John Chapter VI about his body and blood and Corinthians about "not discerning the body" as you go to Communion. Frankly I do not understand how bible believing Protestants can not choose to be at least Othodox Christians when they read the bible.

But all of this is really an aside, yes a thinking Catholic does have concerns about what happened to the Priesthood but we are also aware of the misrepresentations made by the the Churches critics and enemies. You for one should do a little more research before you accuse Church members of foloowing non biblical teachings. Many of us could teach you something about what the bible actually says.

P.S. I am not saying that all divergent Protestants teachings are wrong. Only that the ones that many of the points of contention are based on Pauls teachings vs. the Catholic churches inclusion of gospel teachings. I also believe that almost all of them can be reconciled. For instance many fundamentalists teach, once save always saved. Where Catholics will say that you are saved by Christ but you must live your life in accordance with Jesus teachings. Catholics have outs for death bed confessions and fundamentilists have to deal with back sliding. A careful reading of the bible can reconcile the differerence in the approach.
 
Quote from jem:

Others misrepresent history.



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jem,

is it true the Catholic church has, since 1972 declined in membership by half? does anyone have numbers on this?

JohnnyK
 
I have seen people attempt to synthesize numbers based on incomplete data. I have not seen any studies that can give an accurate tally the situation. It is really very difficult to count Catholics in the States. Catholics are much more lax on figuring out who is in their congregation relative to the Protestant Churches in my experience. There are structural reasons for this. It is easier to switch from one Protestant denomination to another. Frequently it involves an altar call and ensuring a proper baptism in your past. It is much more difficult to become a Catholic and go to Communion which is the focus of the Mass. The Chruch is not out there registering its own members or new members.

Catholic chruches are setup differently. First of all many Catholics do not even register with one Parish. Catholics frequently go to numerous different chruches in their area depending on the schedule.

So while their may be some indication that the Chruch has lost members especially in Europe accurate counts in the States are probably non existent. However, from San Diego, to Florida to and when I visit Catholic Churches in other states almost every surburban Catholic Church I have visted is full with people standing at multiple different Masses on Sundays.

I would also note that there is a baby boom in Catholic Chruches.
 
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