traders who are deeply religious

[JohnnyK]

Death is a clearning house for useless identities.

By that, I mean that useless identities are the only reason for death in the first place.

What I mean is we are immortal already. But we have not yet managed to integrate biological bodies with our immortality due to false identifications.

Thus, to identify with anything other than who we are as immortal beings, will require a death. The most common death so far is physical death. Maybe its just easier...path of least resistance, etc.

The biological body can't be supported with identifications that eminated from the mind. The mind, and all of it's fabulous logic, is powerless to change biology.

If who we are is love, then you can see how so-called christianity has utterly failed mankind in its dualistic quests within the logical mind.

Everywhere, and in ourselves, we are taught to see evil, criminals, sinners, guilty parties...in need of punishments. This is a total betrayal of who we are.

Every man woman and child on the face of the earth...including Kingcobra...is, at the very core of their being, LOVE...and totally innocent.

Any religion promotiing anything otherwise will result in the death of all of its leaders and all of its followers because it is a false identification that cannot support biological bodies.

Immortality of biology is dependant on the death of useless identites. Obviously, if one can figure out how to kill his own useless ID's and realign with true identity...then there is absolutely no more reason for a physical death. Reincarnation is just another opportunity to realize this truth, and leverage it.

A good test to see if we found our true identity yet is to see if we die. So far then, not a single dead Catholic, Protestant or Muslim ever found his true ID. Someone should sound an alarm that someting isnt working.

JohnnyK

 

[jem]

One could provocatively argue that Catholocism is weaker today for having not embraced the revelation / reason split. Johnny K's friend appears to be a fan of Averroes.


It would be a very provocative argument. Interestingly you point that out. At one point it had a had a chance to go with the revelation reson split chosen by the Muslims.

Then later it had a chance to go with the revelatioin reason split in the other direction when Protestants were arguing against the mystery of the Eucharist and infant baptism and many of the other reformations chosen by Protestant leaders influenced by the newtons cause and effect reasoning and the scientific method.

 

[jem]

Quote from vhehn:

well, here is what the baptists\fundies think about the catholics. this was published in a local paper by a church leader:


"One out of every four people in America belongs to the largest cult in the world – and that cult is the Roman Catholic Church. Not knowing the righteous that comes from God, Roman Catholics have sought to establish their own, rejecting the finished work on the cross. Oh, for just one Pastor in the region to sound the alarm. Read the papers. Roman Catholics are dying every day and will spend an eternity in the lake of fire because they have followed a way that seems right to them -- but in the end it leads to death. Are you the Pastor who will sound the alarm?"

By the way vhehn do you believe the garbage written above by pastors who do not even realize that the catholic mass is not a rejection of the finished work of the cross. By the way you do not have to be protestant or catholic to quarrel with a misrepresentation of the core teachings of a faith.

 

[archimedes]

Quote from JohnnyK:

Death is a clearning house for useless identities.

By that, I mean that useless identities are the only reason for death in the first place.

What I mean is we are immortal already. But we have not yet managed to integrate biological bodies with our immortality due to false identifications.

So are you engaging in meta-sarcasm here, or asserting these statements as objective truth, or merely offering an alternative belief system that strikes you as groovy?

It seems to me there are plenty of useful reasons for death -- making room for the next generation being an obvious one -- and it can be argued that an obsession with immortality is unhealthy, arising from a distorted sense of self.


p.s. It is interesting to consider the implications of medical science finding triumph over death. If we ever reach the point where a life span can be extended indefinitely through technology, all kinds of interesting questions will arise.

Who deserves eternal life, for example, if the wealthy can pay for it and the poor cannot. And how should death be viewed, say, by a healthy four-hundred-year-old who has yet decided 'enough is enough.' At what age will a peaceful death in bed be socially acceptable, when the possibility exists of putting it off permanently. How will those with a 'life at all costs' view reconcile this conundrum.

To have power is to have responsibility. Many of our present day views are born of our lack of power, and thus our lack of responsibility, in genuinely considering hard decisions and coming to logically consistent points of view. As greater power confers greater responsibility, man must advance with science -- or science will turn and destroy him.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from archimedes:

On the other hand, once, through the operation of grace, you make the act of faith that you “believe and profess all that the Catholic Church believes, teaches and proclaims to be revealed by God,”* while you may not understand every detail of every article of the faith.... that truth is always borne out to an amazing degree, bringing with that understanding a deep sense of peace and satisfaction (and even love) that an “outsider” cannot know.


That is the central rub. The church wants to have its cake and eat it too.

In terms of logic and reason, you are to submit your own mind to the hive mind -- take on the belief structure of the system, and readily alter that belief structure as the system commands you to. If the Pope decides in 1950 that Mary ascended into heaven in bodily form, and you, a believer since 1940, think that is nuts, well... too bad.

Such an act of total submission seems treasonous to the spirit of logic and reason (which it is, really). The church makes that treason okay, though, by promising that everything you are to swallow, er, believe is rationally sound, with the very strong hint that if you don't think something makes sense, you merely have not grasped its intrinsic soundness yet.

This format is ingenious, absolutely ingenious. The logic / faith duality (plus heaven / hell overlay) acts like a gravitational force field -- once you are in, it is nearly impossible to find the critical mass to escape.

Those who never had much taste for reason in the first place are happy to give over their cumbersome thinking duties, and even grow smug in the realization that they have the "truth" while others who struggle to make sense of the world are lost fools. Those who somewhat respect logic and reason but do not have a passion for objective truth -- most of the population -- may grate against the inconsistencies at times, but once they are "in," seeds of fear and seeds of comfort overcome the weaker seeds of doubt. (No wonder Green Flash wants so badly for his kids to be "in.")

Once deep in gravity's grip, it is only those who are fiercely committed to logic and truth, who have to pursue objectivity as the highest ideal or otherwise forsake their own integrity and sanity, that have a real chance of breaking away when the irresistible force of reason runs headlong into the immovable object of faith. And even then, to make the full break they often must alienate family, friends, community, and maybe even question their own sanity in the process. In the absence of something there is suddenly nothing. It is a very hard thing.

The logic / faith duality pattern, I think, is more an evolved coercion response to human emotional patterns than a specific feature of religion. I have an old friend from high school who has become a diehard socialist / anti-globalization activist. He is going through a similar struggle... his life is now so wrapped up in utopian-marxist bullshit that extricating himself could shatter his identity in the process. I see the reality of the gravitational field every time we talk.

Which brings me to one last point before I shut up: animosity doesn't help anyone. Heaping scorn on someone's inconsistent beliefs is like giving nourishment to the parasite that has infected them. If your words are powerful enough to crack someone's foundation in two, they have to be administered with care if the goal is to truly be of help.

very good. i know how hard it is to free your mind from indoctrination from childhood. i have lived it.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from jem:

By the way vhehn do you believe the garbage written above by pastors who do not even realize that the catholic mass is not a rejection of the finished work of the cross. By the way you do not have to be protestant or catholic to quarrel with a misrepresentation of the core teachings of a faith.

no i dont believe it. i dont believe in hell or damnation or satan or any of that other superstitious nonsense. religion to me is mostly based on superstition. however i find it useful to know what the strongest believers believe in order to try to understand the mindset.

 

[cooldude]

Quote from TheConMan:

The Catholic church is a political organization disguised as a religious cult. This political organization has carried out, financed and supported some of the most egregious and heinous crimes against humanity. From the inquisition, the crusades, to political intrigue and wide-spread murder of political opponents by burning at the stake in the middle ages, to the recent pervasive condoning of widespread child rape. The crimes of mass murder against humanity were carried out under the disguise of being condoned by god.

Once the historical crimes against humanity of the catholic political organization are brought into perspective, the rest of what it stands for becomes irrelevant. Its members do not wish to recognize these crimes. After all they are good cult members. As I have posted earlier, much of its christian teachings are divergent from what Christ taught and observed himself. A good God would never sanction, nor tolerate the existence of such a evil organization that supposedly exists to carry out His word.

Just change
"catholic" by "islam"
"cruzade" by "jhiad"
"Inquisition" by "Shariah"
"christian" by "muslim"
"God" by "Allah"
"Christ" by "Mohammed"
"middle ages" by "today"
"wide-spread murder" by "fatwas"
"xxxx" by "yyyy"
and what do you have?

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from archimedes:

So are you engaging in meta-sarcasm here, or asserting these statements as objective truth, or merely offering an alternative belief system that strikes you as groovy?

I must admit that I am merely offering an alternative belief system that strikes me as groovy.

But I advocate any alternative knowing system, so as to move away from belief systems as soon as possible. Faith is only a beginning...consciousness is the end result. Faith is a starting point, not a stopping point. It will require both faith and consciousness to reach the highest levels of understanding...which will involve a surrender to the power of all-inclusive wholeness. Like two legs of a biped, we need both to be balanced so we can move forward.

Groovy is a good choice of word because these things that resonate with me. I feel happy when pondering them, and when sharing them.

I am currently, and rapidly, filling in the gaps of a more wholistic viewpoint, and am excited to share the results. I might even have a responsibility to do so, if what I vibe with is true. It is also a response to all the bad news and fear mongering appearing in chit chat daily...and in the news daily....a solutions oriented response.

I make statements that sound as though I am stating fact. It is just easier this way and saves time and space. It's ok to think of my stuff as science fiction. But any and all of my viewpoints are meant to line up with reality and would line up with science and religion only when they line up with reality. I appreciate any challenges that cause me to reevaluate or dig deeper.


I make statements that sound as though I am stating fact. But it only becomes truth when inner and outer are one...for you.

I'll address your other excellent observations next.

JohnnyK

 

[JohnnyK]

Quote from archimedes:

It seems to me there are plenty of useful reasons for death -- making room for the next generation being an obvious one -- and it can be argued that an obsession with immortality is unhealthy, arising from a distorted sense of self.

Consider for a moment, that death is the result of a distorted sense of self. Then, look at how the dying might consider immortality the result of a distorted sense of self. Absurd, yes?

More likely, it can be argued that people are obsessed with immortalizing distorted senses of self. I have yet to meet anyone obsessed with identifying themselves as love, only love, and nothing but the love. And this is what leads to immortality.

We can expect that these types of beings supercede time and space. They will be drawing their life force from an energy field beyond the consevation field. So if anything, they would be excellent teachers of how to create abundance using energy drawn from beyond the conseveratiion field. In a worst case scenario, they could just ASCEND...if there wasn't enough room within earthly densities. Maybe this has already transpired many times. Some may yet be here, some may be gone, some may be present in synchronicity...unseen to the naked eye.

The biology of an immortal is going to be different. The energy needs are going to be different, as well as energy supplies. Likely, such a one will be in harmony with nature, balanced, and one with all creation. Can we really argue that it's possible to have an overpopulation of something we haven't experienced en masse?

JohnnyK

 

[marketsurfer]

Quote from JohnnyK:

Death is a clearning house for useless identities.



JohnnyK

your concepts appear to be unique. can you direct me to additional data on these ideas?

thank you,

surfer