traders who are deeply religious
- Thread starter hermit_trader
- Start date
You haven't the slightest inkling what we're talking about, you full-on fruitcake. And given the personal nature of my comments your response would be offensive were it not born out of such deep and pitiable ignorance.
Bitstream and I are sitting at the adults' table now, I think we've both made it clear we're thru w/you. Please return to the children's playroom where you belong and let the grownups talk.
H
What youâre missing is that Matthew used the meaning the Jews themselves used, and he used it accurately. Itâs only now that christianity claims the prophecies refer to Jesus that there is the subsequent assumption they do not or that it is inaccurate. If it is so inaccurate, why didnât the translators of the LXX use the appropriate word? Was the correct word suddenly unavailable to them?
Also, Isaiah is speaking of a sign. Isa 7:14 So, The Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold! The virgin will conceive and will bring forth a son; and she shall call His name Immanuel.
A woman having a child isnât much of a sign, is it?
Ridiculous on the face of it.
It is the belief of the early Jews, not modern Jews that is important.
Alternately, it clearly refers to Jesus. Claiming something is clear doesnât make it so.
In the context of Jesus, it makes perfect sense. All youâre offering is speculation, and my speculation is equivalent to yours, if not better.
Alternately, the Holy Spirit used the appropriate words. There will come a time when the Jews WILL use this name for him, else the prophecy will fail.
According to the book of Daniel, a jewish prophetic book, there is a long prophecy concerning Israel. It basically says that a certain period of time will elapse -- from the command of the rebuilding of the temple -- before the messiah will be âcut offâ. This was literally fulfilled to the day that Jesus was crucified. Daniel speaks of a final 7 year period when God will again deal with the Jews instead of the Church. Prior to this time, Israel had to be restored as a country (1948) and Jerusalem recaptured (1967).
Another prophecy from Genesis 49 says that the ability to execute capital punishment, among other things, will be retained by judah until the messiah comes. This was lost at the time Jesus was born. As a result, the jews could not put Jesus to death and had to appeal to Pontius Pilate to bring it about.
However, Jesus was crucified for calling himself God, which is the meaning of Immanuel. It also fulfills the prophecy much better and certainly more literally than any figurative meaning you have to strive to come up with. Jesus himself said that Isaiah prophecies were about him:
Luke 4:17-21 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written,
"The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Gospel to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed, to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
And rolling up the book, returning it to the attendant, He sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fastened on Him.
And He began to say to them, Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your ears.
Moreover, John agrees with Matthew regarding Isaiah:
John 12:39 Because of this they could not believe, because Isaiah said again, "He has blinded their eyes and has hardened their heart, that they might not see with the eyes and understand with the heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." Isa. 6:10
Isaiah said these things when he saw His glory, and spoke about Him.
Miffed, are we?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you making a personal attack?
And aren't personal attacks the last resort of a person who fails to make a cogent argument?
I agree with your comments that make sense, and not the remainder.
Adults can handle that.
My guess is that you're sitting at the wrong table, sonny.
It was merely a question. I see you applied it to yourself.
Don't take these things personally.
If you demonstrate sincerity I will be happy to chat with you. You are one of the few who didn't make an effort to be rational and as a result I didn't really give you much credence.
Contrast that with my chat with vhehn.
If you refuse to think for yourself and continue ad hominem you'll mostly be ignored.
Fair enough?
Yup.
On a tangential note, there is a pearl of great price.
But, the oyster was considered unclean.
A pearl is the only thing of value that is created from an irritation and is removed to become an item of adornment.
That's an analogy of the church. I won't say what the irritation was, but we will be removed at the wedding of the lamb.
Christians need to grow up and study their history... mystics wrote the bible in the language of the mystic, ie: symbolism and allegory... why use that language? because it is the language of the subconscious, the gateway to superconscious knowledge... the biggest mistake exoteric religion makes is interpreting the bible LITERALLY... this is complete ignorance of the function of these writings and their intent... these stories read lke myth and fairytales because that was the intent... there is a great secret hidden in the story of a resurrected man god... but it cannot be spoken of plainly, it is far more effective if planted in the subconsciousness as a seed thought... so let me state once and for all... interpretted literally the bible is worthless... GROW UP... only a child or a emotionally weak adult would hang onto those stories as literal truth