traders who are deeply religious

[trainr]

Quote from hcour:quoting trainr: ... you've missed the point."

No, you're the one missing the point.

No, you are. "No, you are." No, you are. "No, you are." (I could do this for hours. Who wins?)

They weren't "knowers", they believed they were "knowers".

Alternately, the statement stands. You've done nothing to refute it except say, "Un uh."

Are you saying that people alive at the same time as Jesus had no idea whether or not he rose from the dead?

Sort of ludicrous, don't you think?

What if I said to you that the Twin Towers in New York were destroyed by terrorists using an atomic bomb?

One of the reasons you'd have a problem with it is you were alive at the time. You know what really happened.

If those people didn't know, don't you think they were at least mildly curious and highly motivated to find out before giving up their lives and the lives of the ones they loved?

Again, they didn't BELIEVE he did or didn't rise from the dead -- they KNEW.

And based on what they knew they were willing to die.

(Are there any thinkers on this board at all?)

 

[hcour]

Quote from trainr:

Are you saying that people alive at the same time as Jesus had no idea whether or not he rose from the dead?

Sort of ludicrous, don't you think?

(Are there any thinkers on this board at all?)

Are you saying the followers of Charles Manson, Buddah, and Mohammed didn't really witness miracles that happened right in front of them?

Sort of ludicrous, don't you think?

Do you know how to think outside of your Christian box?

H

 

[trainr]

Quote from hcour: quoting trainr: "Are you saying that people alive at the same time as Jesus had no idea whether or not he rose from the dead?

Sort of ludicrous, don't you think?

(Are there any thinkers on this board at all?) "

Are you saying the followers of Charles Manson, Buddah, and Mohammed didn't really witness miracles that happened right in front of them?

Sort of ludicrous, don't you think?

Do you know how to think outside of your Christian box?

H

I'll answer your question if you'll answer mine.

 

[rcj]

Little by little we subtract
Faith and fallacy from fact
The illusory from the true
And starve upon the residue.

 

[trainr]

Quote from rcj:

Little by little we subtract
Faith and fallacy from fact
The illusory from the true
And starve upon the residue.

Some days it's beans and bacon.
Some days ain't nothing shakin'.

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from hcour:

Are you saying the followers of Charles Manson, Buddah, and Mohammed didn't really witness miracles that happened right in front of them?

Sort of ludicrous, don't you think?

Do you know how to think outside of your Christian box?

H

I think it's just pointless to argue with people lacking logical thinking and suffering from complete blindness to faith.
Of course for us readers is funny to see every believer's attempt to prove god's existence being met with humiliating slaps in the face...

please carry on.

 

[hcour]

trainr, I answered your question: People believe what they want to believe. You believe the disciples saw JC perform his miracle and because they were "knowers", they were willing to die for it. Fine. The disciples of Manson believed they saw him perform miracles and because they were "knowers", they were willing to follow him and brutally murder 7 people.

Until you can come up w/something else than "the disciples were knowers" I'm thru w/you. Talk about not being able to think...

H

 

[trainr]

Quote from Bitstream:

I think it's just pointless to argue with people lacking logical thinking and suffering from complete blindness to faith.
Of course for us readers is funny to see every believer's attempt to prove god's existence being met with humiliating slaps in the face...

please carry on.

I accept your surrender.

 

[Bitstream]

Quote from trainr:

I accept your surrender.

Dio e' morto

 

[trainr]

Quote from hcour:

trainr, I answered your question: People believe what they want to believe.

Do you believe you can fly? Would you like to?

Patently untrue.

People don't necessarily believe what they want. Those who deny reality are aberrations.

You'd have me believe that anyone alive at the time of Jesus was aberrant, yet you offer no evidence. You say I don't think, yet I've obviously dedicated much more logic to this than you.

Somehow the idea that aberrations exist becomes for you proof that anyone who believes in Jesus is aberrant. You've made no logical connection between the two thoughts.

You make alot of speculative statements you want me to accept as fact, whereas I quote events as they are recorded historically.

Can you at least show how everyone alive at the time of Jesus was aberrant?

I think we can agree the followers of Manson were aberrant. They were tried in a court of law based on real evidence.

The same rules applied to the early martyrs and the gospel writers has already been cited in this thread, and leads to an entirely different conclusion, but you lump them all together.

Your bias is too severe to discuss this.