Traders' Coach (Woman)
- Thread starter Toonces
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If you consider where emotions and psychology come from, you can begin to realize that it's not only important, it's virtually all there is. This is the reason why Paul Tudor Jones hired Tony Robbins many years ago when he (TJ) was in a slump.
Humans are animals, and as such are creatures of patterns. Emotions are personal psychology are all about patterns. Even to the point of personal relationships. It's not about "me" and "him". It's about my patterns interacting with his patterns. These patterns are directly responsible for creating meaning. It follows that there is no such thing as absolute meaning. This is one of the reasons why the same trading system, followed by different, but succesful traders will produce different results.
The major challenge of course is, we almost never are aware of our own patterns and this places us in a model of reality that is incomplete at best. For more info on this philosophy see www.jerrystocking.com.
niether soros or taleb has hired flavia directly to work with their gut feelings, however both have benefited from her expertise in different ways. soros used her insights in the new edition of his book "the alchemy of finance" and she also helped him with the book draft. taleb consults with flavia on theoretical questions concerning decision making under uncertainty. they both strongly endorse her work :
"Flavia is one of those rare people who truly belong to the category of "thinkers of uncertainty", thanks to her accomplished well-rounded training. Her culture cuts across the desired fields: cognitive science, behavioral science, epistemology, and financial economics. If you ever consider discussing anything related to behavior under uncertainty you need to talk to her first."
Nassim Nicholas Taleb, author of "Fooled by Randomness" and founder of Empirica LLC
âFlaviaâs work provides valuable insights into the role of intuition in decision-making under uncertainty. It helps crystallize how theory and instinct work togetherâ.
George Soros
best,
surfer
Emotions and psychology are key to success in almost every endeavor in life, in specific ways.
However, I doubt if they are essential to trading success from the perspective of developing strategy. I do think they help with the discipline/risk management component of trading.
It seems to me though, that these coaches want traders to believe that emotions and psychology are the sine qua non of trading - not entirely so, in my opinion.
The point is... the fact that they hope for others to make them a better trader is BS.
Soros and others were successful even before they met this lady you guys are talking about.
Trading Coach is BS.... It's just a self-fulfilling confirmation of your actions though other's logic of different field.
You guys make nothing into a problem too much... Meaning... too naive in life. I recommend you to do something new in life.
What about:
Visiting a country you've never imagined? India, Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, some country in Africa, or Iraq (LOL)
Working for McDonalds or getting a night job as a bartender?
Working in a deadend job... like sweeping the freeways?
It'll give you more insights about yourself (and get minimal pay) than all the BS, you guys are talking about.
For all Posters:
When I read about the idea of having a trading coach who deals with "focus", I find that I have concerns as to just how helpful such an approach might be. I found in my own career that when I "felt" uncertain about a trade, it was because I had not done enough homework. It is obvious to me that we have to make decisions knowing that we don't have all the data, nevertheless I found that once I started to 1.) do my homework and 2.) quantify my edge and 3.) manage risk, THEN I was able to pull the trigger without having to struggle to control the physical symptoms (that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach....pounding pulse in the temples....etc. In my opinion, if you dont feel good about your trades, if you can't pull the trigger with some degree of confidence, it is because your body in its wisdom, is sending you the message "hey just a minute, this isn't trading, this is gambling. You've got no idea whether this is going to work or not. Don't do it.!!!" Instead of spending thousands of dollars to learn to "focus" your feelings, I suggest you go out and buy Ari Kiev's book "The Psychology of Risk, Mastering Market Uncertainty". If you take it seriously, you will get to the bottom line quickly and then it all comes down to whether or not you are willing to do the work. Good luck, Steve46
When I read about the idea of having a trading coach who deals with "focus", I find that I have concerns as to just how helpful such an approach might be. I found in my own career that when I "felt" uncertain about a trade, it was because I had not done enough homework. It is obvious to me that we have to make decisions knowing that we don't have all the data, nevertheless I found that once I started to 1.) do my homework and 2.) quantify my edge and 3.) manage risk, THEN I was able to pull the trigger without having to struggle to control the physical symptoms (that sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach....pounding pulse in the temples....etc. In my opinion, if you dont feel good about your trades, if you can't pull the trigger with some degree of confidence, it is because your body in its wisdom, is sending you the message "hey just a minute, this isn't trading, this is gambling. You've got no idea whether this is going to work or not. Don't do it.!!!" Instead of spending thousands of dollars to learn to "focus" your feelings, I suggest you go out and buy Ari Kiev's book "The Psychology of Risk, Mastering Market Uncertainty". If you take it seriously, you will get to the bottom line quickly and then it all comes down to whether or not you are willing to do the work. Good luck, Steve46
Quote from WDGann:
The point is... the fact that they hope for others to make them a better trader is BS.
Soros and others were successful even before they met this lady you guys are talking about.
Trading Coach is BS.... It's just a self-fulfilling confirmation of your actions though other's logic of different field.
You guys make nothing into a problem too much... Meaning... too naive in life. I recommend you to do something new in life.
What about:
Visiting a country you've never imagined? India, Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, some country in Africa, or Iraq (LOL)
Working for McDonalds or getting a night job as a bartender?
Working in a deadend job... like sweeping the freeways?
It'll give you more insights about yourself (and get minimal pay) than all the BS, you guys are talking about.
Do you have experience with this, if so please tell us about it. I am thinking of doing just that. Not so sure whether to choose the mcdonalds or bartender job yet though..
on the point that those counselors do not seem to make a trader profitable (and whatever someone else tries to tell you, isn't profitability the most important in trading?).
I am very skeptical of those coaches. Who says that Soros or Buffett ever relied on that woman for their trading/investing style or psychological mindsets? Was it that a small trader who visited her booth at a trade show in Las Vegas heard that from her (her name was Flavia, right?). Why didn't that guy walk up to the booth of Soros or Buffett to ask them whether that was right ;-) (or is it taken off the book by Buffett who never wrote that book but was interviewed by a professional writer who did all the book writing for him and therefore added some mysticism? Or do you guys also believe all the stories you would read in books by the R. Stones or other rock stars that were entirely written by someone else who has not experienced such stories first hand?) From having spent about 60 seconds on her website I rather get the impression that Flavia was the one who interviewed or consulted Buffett for her new book, not vice versa.
I believe that the most important thing to trade profitably is the right view of future market development (being more often right than wrong) and an EXCELLENT (I cannot overstate this) knowledge and insight of statistics and statistical models. Working on emotions and mindsets can be very deceptive because how do you want to quantify such things and who can prove that one mindsets is wrong and the other is right? Of course there are classical cases in which ones emotions block ones trading style.
In summary, I am afraid that without proper knowledge of statistics and without a real strive for an original opinion on future market developments, no coach in the world will make that trader become profitable or return to profitability. And I am relieved because I think that possessing such qualities, even some bad emotions will not make a trader lose it all, because if one adheres to statistical models and probabilities and sets up risk parameters BEFORE each trade (setting up=really executing on them not setting them in ones mind), emotions have got a hard time to come in between.
I am very skeptical of those coaches. Who says that Soros or Buffett ever relied on that woman for their trading/investing style or psychological mindsets? Was it that a small trader who visited her booth at a trade show in Las Vegas heard that from her (her name was Flavia, right?). Why didn't that guy walk up to the booth of Soros or Buffett to ask them whether that was right ;-) (or is it taken off the book by Buffett who never wrote that book but was interviewed by a professional writer who did all the book writing for him and therefore added some mysticism? Or do you guys also believe all the stories you would read in books by the R. Stones or other rock stars that were entirely written by someone else who has not experienced such stories first hand?) From having spent about 60 seconds on her website I rather get the impression that Flavia was the one who interviewed or consulted Buffett for her new book, not vice versa.
I believe that the most important thing to trade profitably is the right view of future market development (being more often right than wrong) and an EXCELLENT (I cannot overstate this) knowledge and insight of statistics and statistical models. Working on emotions and mindsets can be very deceptive because how do you want to quantify such things and who can prove that one mindsets is wrong and the other is right? Of course there are classical cases in which ones emotions block ones trading style.
In summary, I am afraid that without proper knowledge of statistics and without a real strive for an original opinion on future market developments, no coach in the world will make that trader become profitable or return to profitability. And I am relieved because I think that possessing such qualities, even some bad emotions will not make a trader lose it all, because if one adheres to statistical models and probabilities and sets up risk parameters BEFORE each trade (setting up=really executing on them not setting them in ones mind), emotions have got a hard time to come in between.
The conscious mind is only 3% of the brain, the vast 97% is the unconscious which largely remains untapped. Focusing is a technique that allows a person to systematically access that 97%.
This is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but if you listen to Paul Tudor Jones speech he recently gave at the NY Merc where he brought up the subject of savants you will understand why many consider Flavia's work so important.
http://www.autismtoday.com/articles/SavantSyndrome.htm
All the best and Happy Holidays