Trader P/L 2006 Questions and Discussion
- Thread starter polpolik
- Start date
I just want to know why the hell everyone is so scared to post their Buying Power? It would give us all a better idea of what percentage gains you're returning on your total portfolio, I mean HELLO THIS IS ONLINE!!!!
I'm Cal.
and I have $19,000 real, $100,000 virtual I trade with.
Thanks
I'm Cal.
and I have $19,000 real, $100,000 virtual I trade with.
Thanks
Buying power is just a number, not a portfolio. I have an insanely high bp number because I need to float hundreds and hundreds of orders simultaneously. % return on my buying power would be a meaninless figure.
I do however take all the risk and every penny lost is right off my account equity, so return based on account size might be somewhat meaningful. Even on the internet though, most people don't want to post this. I don't have a problem with it though, I usually keep my account in the 80-100k range. I could get away with a lot less, but I like a big cusion.
I do however take all the risk and every penny lost is right off my account equity, so return based on account size might be somewhat meaningful. Even on the internet though, most people don't want to post this. I don't have a problem with it though, I usually keep my account in the 80-100k range. I could get away with a lot less, but I like a big cusion.
Ok cool. Then maybe you can also explain how your going to "retry" trading when all your capital evaporates by trying to average down. And yes, you are right about retrying again and again in a video game and eventually getting past key levels. But, in real life, there are only so many chances for you to retry since mistakes in trading has monetary value as opposed to video games.
All I am saying is that some of you guys here make it seem like trading is a piece of cake. And a lot of newbies come running into this "game" thinking they're going to make millions then end up in the gutter. I just can't see trading as a game. I see it as a battle field where everyone is out to get my money...
I think they're trying to connect the dots for you between video games and trading simulators.
For example, there are actual competition for prize money on particular types of video games (I saw a recent documentary about some guy winning 50k in a video game tournament).
The losers in the tournament reacted as if they were devestated and few acted as if the world had come to an end.
I never knew people took video gaming so seriously...makes sense because it is a billion dollar industry and still growing.
They also seem to devote as much time to learning their video game as traders do in learning how to trade.
In trading, we can actually practice (retry via a simulator) prior to any real money trading.
We can retry via real money trading with very small position size in comparison to what size we will be doing when a particular level of competence is reached.
Yep, you can even setup your trading workstation like a video game because someone here at ET showed an image (I can't remember what thread it was) that they used a joystick and special type of keyboard for trading.
By the way, madmunny seems to be talking about scaling into a position whereas NasdaqKiller seems to be talking about averaging down.
I consider these two different things based upon the goal and trading plan of the trade prior to entry.
A trader that scales into a position has such as part of their trading plan prior to entry along with knowing what levels they will add to the position to bring it to a full position
For example...lets say your a trader that scales into your position and your price zone is 750 - 755 with an exit target of 765 - 775...initial stop at 748.
You do an entry at 754 and price drops down to 752 and you add another portion (still not at full) and again at 751 to bring it full.
Simply, traders with methods that involves scaling in really don't care if the position is profitable or at a loss as long as they add within the designated price zone they have.
However, in contrast, a trader that averages down tends to not be using stop/loss protection and/or do such after trade entry problems involving the initial full position and possibly money management or position size violations.
In other words, those that used the term average down tend to enter their initial position as the full position because had the trade gone their way instead of against them...
They don't add to the position.
For example, lets say I can trade as much as 50 contracts without violating whatever money management rule I'm using.
Yet, I normally trade no more than 10 contracts per trade and decided one particular trading day to trade no more than 5 contracts for whatever reason.
However, a particular trade of 5 contracts goes against the trader, he panicks, thinks its going to bounce his way again and he adds another 5 contracts...
I consider this to be averaging down because the position was a full at 5 contracts in the initial entry.
As for newbies...if you truly think trading is more like a battlefield...
Who would you rather be competing against the most...newbies or veteran traders that knows how to trade?
My point, if trading really is a battlefield...
Don't be so concerned about what newbies think because you want them on the other side of your trades.
Am I right or wrong?
Let them come to ET and think the craziest things and give them no warnings nor help.
Thus, the ones you should be concerned about are the veteran traders because that's were the threat truly is if trading to you is a battlefield.
With that said, going back to the ET guy that uses a joystick and a specialize keyboard...
I guess he's a good example of how trading can be viewed as a video game.
I wonder if he has some cool sound effects on entries, exits, stop placements et cetera like some of the sounds we hear in today's video games because most trading platforms today allows the use of custom .wav files.
Mark
When you run out of 20c pieces you have to earn some more. Time to find an off game job. A paper round anyone?
Re "everyone is out to get my money" ... to me that's quite paranoid, the other players couldn't care whether they get my money or not, nor I theirs ... but it also fits the multi-player game scenario if one or more of the other players know you enough to want to damage you personally.
Interesting thread... interesting thoughts.
#1) I myself do not trade with the mentality that everyone is "out to get me or my money".
The financial market to me is an enormous, anonymous entity. It exists to move in one direction or both more days than not. In other words, markets survive by moving directionally. If that didn't happen, price discovery would cease to function and markets would collapse.
My only task is to seek out prevailing market direction and catch a profitable part of the ride. Why a market moves where, who causes what and how it all happens is totally irrelevant to my bottom line. Trying to understand = rationalize = predict such things is a waste of time at best, counter-productive and damaging at worst.
#2) The account I track in P&L has buying power of $10,000 per one emini ES contract. With initial stops of -$100, that risks -1% of account balance per trade.
The ES is considerably more difficult to trade than ER, NQ or YM when it comes to measuring per trade potential. That's because it has a fraction of the $$ range ER does, and NQ - YM trade smoother thru the same $$ range as ES.
The only feature ES offers other three do not is liquidity. There are serious liquidity issues with ER and YM for trading size without significant slippage. I read somewhere that someone is trading YM in 200-lot blocks. The only way that happens is entering & exiting in a bunch of pieces, or getting hit with heavy slippage on both ends of the turn.
#3) All three days this week I traded ER in 3 - 4 turns per session seeking bigger swings profit exit, and broke even. Each day there was at least one more signal (one day there were two) that I passed up, watched but didn't take and all went at least +4pts ER or better soon after.
Why lay off the trades I would usually take? I felt the "pressure" of reporting results here, purely self-imposed. What would anyone care if I took ten turns and made/lost money in the end?
Performance pressure is a very real part of trading, and it is always self-imposed. Very seldom do I take that many ER trades and not make money in the end, just the way tapes unfolded so far. Trading a more conservative approach in ES and the fact of public scrutiny on a day-by-day basis did affect my decision process in real life.
In the end, trading is all in our minds. The world is not out to get us... in reality, the world cares a lot less about any one of us than our egos would like to believe (heary laugh)
Best Trading Wishes
#1) I myself do not trade with the mentality that everyone is "out to get me or my money".
The financial market to me is an enormous, anonymous entity. It exists to move in one direction or both more days than not. In other words, markets survive by moving directionally. If that didn't happen, price discovery would cease to function and markets would collapse.
My only task is to seek out prevailing market direction and catch a profitable part of the ride. Why a market moves where, who causes what and how it all happens is totally irrelevant to my bottom line. Trying to understand = rationalize = predict such things is a waste of time at best, counter-productive and damaging at worst.
#2) The account I track in P&L has buying power of $10,000 per one emini ES contract. With initial stops of -$100, that risks -1% of account balance per trade.
The ES is considerably more difficult to trade than ER, NQ or YM when it comes to measuring per trade potential. That's because it has a fraction of the $$ range ER does, and NQ - YM trade smoother thru the same $$ range as ES.
The only feature ES offers other three do not is liquidity. There are serious liquidity issues with ER and YM for trading size without significant slippage. I read somewhere that someone is trading YM in 200-lot blocks. The only way that happens is entering & exiting in a bunch of pieces, or getting hit with heavy slippage on both ends of the turn.
#3) All three days this week I traded ER in 3 - 4 turns per session seeking bigger swings profit exit, and broke even. Each day there was at least one more signal (one day there were two) that I passed up, watched but didn't take and all went at least +4pts ER or better soon after.
Why lay off the trades I would usually take? I felt the "pressure" of reporting results here, purely self-imposed. What would anyone care if I took ten turns and made/lost money in the end?
Performance pressure is a very real part of trading, and it is always self-imposed. Very seldom do I take that many ER trades and not make money in the end, just the way tapes unfolded so far. Trading a more conservative approach in ES and the fact of public scrutiny on a day-by-day basis did affect my decision process in real life.
In the end, trading is all in our minds. The world is not out to get us... in reality, the world cares a lot less about any one of us than our egos would like to believe (heary laugh)
Best Trading Wishes
Im going to treat CSCO like a video game today. I will tell you my results later. Good Luck everyone.