Trader and Modern Psychoanalyst looks at fear and greed

[darkhorse]

Quote from WDGann:


Trading decisions are purely non-emotional.

just to play devil's advocate, is it even possible to enter a wholly non-emotional state?

i.e. wouldn't general descriptors like balanced, neutral, clear-headed, relaxed etc. qualify as emotions on some level?

being in the zone feels good whereas trying to be robotic feels forced/artificial imho... anyone else have an opinion on whether or not flow has a feel?

 

[Specul8r]

Quote from darkhorse:




just to play devil's advocate, is it even possible to enter a wholly non-emotional state?

i.e. wouldn't general descriptors like balanced, neutral, clear-headed, relaxed etc. qualify as emotions on some level?

being in the zone feels good whereas trying to be robotic feels forced/artificial imho... anyone else have an opinion on whether or not flow has a feel?

It most certainly has a feel to it Dark. The feel for me though is not best described as emotional, it pretty much transcends the "emotional/thinking" state and borders on the spiritually charged. It is an amazing feel when you are on auto-pilot. The end of the session comes and you are drained, but have this weird feeling that you didn't really do anything.

I think emotions are a plus, but they have their place. On the macro, both fear and greed are necessary components for me. In the midst of action though, you must go do your business. I perform best in a state the east would label as "empty", but I do encounter emotions here and there while doing my thing. Once you truly know yourself though, you know these emotions that arise are natural ~BUT NOT REAL~, you come to work right through them.

I never make a conscious attempt to control my emotions, for in my opinion this is an extremely futile endeavor, comparable to putting a fire out with fire; for how are you going to suppress these emotions with the same thing that created them? For me it was a matter of coming to realize how hollow they are, knowing that they are not my 'true self' and that they can only effect me if I let them.

PEACE & good-specul8tion professor Dark and nice to see you posting again...

 

[Specul8r]

Quote from darkhorse:



and while you're at it, start buying all of your food prechewed. after all, what's the point of chewing it yourself?

 

[joethemoustache]

Hey Guys! Maybe a look here could be interesting.

http://www.behaviouralfinance.net/
Lots of articles in full text PDF-format

Also see

Tvede, Lars, The psychology of finance : understanding the behavioral dynamics of markets , 2002, Wiley trading series

Basically combines technical analysis with psychological theories of how information selection etc affects your emotional status. I glanced through it. Was ok for a different take on TA but in parts feels more of an academic construct than written from the floor

Take Care

 

[oten]

PSYCHOLOGY - HOW I OVERCAME FEAR AND GREED

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from darkhorse:




anybody remember the 'all things scottish' skit on saturday night live?

IF IT'S NOT SCIENTIFIC, IT'S CRAP! (read with thick scottish accent)

let's just take it all the way home: unless someone with a phd has done double blind tests and submitted research results to a journal in triplicate, don't bother worrying your pretty little head over the subject. and while you're at it, start buying all of your food prechewed. after all, what's the point of chewing it yourself?

I would not be too quick to dismiss the scientific process if I were you. If it were not for unbiased research under controlled conditions that could be peer-reviewed and peer-tested, we would probably still be living in the Dark Ages of anecdotal evidence and old wives' tales. There is a lot of BS in this world, and the scientific process is one way to wade through it without drowning.

Case in point: in 1975, Herbert Benson, M.D., wrote a simple little book called "The Relaxation Response." It was based on laboratory-tested studies of the mind/body connection at Harvard Medical School. He looked at different forms of meditation and found that certain physiological responses could be duplicated regardless of the methods employed. Specifically, he measured things like oxygen consumption, heart rate, blood-lactate and the brain's alpha waves.

He concluded that meditation could be used to achieve an "inducible, physiologic state of quietude." This was, perhaps, the first foray by a member of the mainstream medical community into the mind/body connection. He found that it existed and could be exploited with beneficial effect. This may not sound ground-breaking to you. We all "know" this already, right? However, through proper testing, he was able to break the measurable and repeatable process down into its simplest components, cutting out a lot of esoteric fat that just obfuscated the process. So, whether you are a card-carrying Zen practitioner or a Transcendental Meditator makes little difference. You may take 10 steps or whatever to achieve your desired state, but Dr. Benson scientifically concluded that only 2 essential steps are required to obtain the same results. And while you may choose to spend years and thousands on gurus who speak in riddles, the book costs only about $7.

Unless it can be objectively validated, it is just another tiresome infomercial to me. Life is just too short to take every snake oil seriously.

 

[Specul8r]

Dog,

Thats great that Benson teaches a simple way to induce the physical after effects of practicing meditation, but if you believe that those physical after effects are the reason to meditate, then you are thoroughly confused.

To leave you wit a Darkism; "and while you're at it, start buying all of your food prechewed. after all, what's the point of chewing it yourself?"

PEACE and good-specul8tion

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Specul8r:

Dog,

Thats great that Benson teaches a simple way to induce the physical after effects of practicing meditation, but if you believe that those physical after effects are the reason to meditate, then you are thoroughly confused.

To leave you wit a Darkism; "and while you're at it, start buying all of your food prechewed. after all, what's the point of chewing it yourself?"

PEACE and good-specul8tion

Perhaps you missed the point, or I did not clarify it sufficiently. That "physiologic state of quietude" is associated with reduced stress and a greater sense of well-being.

As for the chewing, I prefer to be selective about what I eat.

 

[Specul8r]

Quote from Thunderdog:




Perhaps you missed the point, or I did not clarify it sufficiently. That "physiologic state of quietude" is associated with reduced stress and a greater sense of well-being.

As for the chewing, I prefer to be selective about what I eat.

Fair enough, it definately does suck to chew on cactus, unless of course if makes you trip for a day or two...

PEACE and good-specul8tion

 

[WDGann]

Quote from darkhorse:




just to play devil's advocate, is it even possible to enter a wholly non-emotional state?

i.e. wouldn't general descriptors like balanced, neutral, clear-headed, relaxed etc. qualify as emotions on some level?

being in the zone feels good whereas trying to be robotic feels forced/artificial imho... anyone else have an opinion on whether or not flow has a feel?

OK, let me try to kill the devil's temptation...

Action is un-emotional. Are you emotional when you pick up the cup from the table? Are you emotional when you walk? But... it depends on the objective and prejudice you hold in you that changes. There's a story about Miyamoto Musashi (author of Book of Five Rings and a master swordsman ) that explains this well:

He was once asked by another samurai what is the way of the samurai. So Musashi asks the samurai to walk across a narrow plank of wood. The samurai walks across with no problem. Then he asks the samurai if he can do the same on a tight rope above a volcano. End of story.

When you pick up a cup off the table. You just pick it up. Then what if you were picking up a brittle crystal cup? Will you pick it up the same way? Probably not, you'll be relatively careful. That relativeness of action is the emotion you hold, which affects the expected sensation of action.

So what is important is to be concious of your sensations of action rather than the emotions of the action.

{I just like to note that there's at least 7 terms in Japanese that translates to "feel" in English like feel of sensation, feel of emotion, inner feel, perspective feel, quality of feel, and etc. etc.. They are all separated. Also, emotions are not defined as a state of mind but rather an action. Japanese would tell you to stop anger (like stop running) and a Westerner would tell you to stop "being" angry... very different in how things are percieved}

{ Another is... there is no word for spiritual in Japanese like how Westerners define to. Though, spirituality is refered in a divine quality. For a human, all is reality }