dbphoenix, how so? Feel free to PM on this as well, because it takes a certain amount of effort to maintain a journal and I would like to get something out of it.
Thanks,
-Fast
Trader and Modern Psychoanalyst looks at fear and greed
- Thread starter neisykay
- Start date
Thanks,
-Fast
Your question and my response are more appropriate to your journal. I don't recall when you started it, but I suggest you review the first post or two and assess whether or not you've achieved your goals, and, if not, why not. You may simply have lost your way and need to get back on track.
After reading darkhorse's comments I may finally understand what this concept of "clearing" is. Is clearing what is needed in order for the subconscious to trust the conscious mind.
I no idea that people try to lie to their subconscious. I assummed liars and crooks knew they were liars an crooks. I assumed all these people who come out of the seminars saying I am great really knew the true assement of themselves. Now I know why there is so much money in self help.
I no idea that people try to lie to their subconscious. I assummed liars and crooks knew they were liars an crooks. I assumed all these people who come out of the seminars saying I am great really knew the true assement of themselves. Now I know why there is so much money in self help.
For all the psych's out there my thesis:
I think that people ultimately know their weakness and their fears. Emotions are good until they either create a behavior which is negative. Emotions are good until they prevent a "good" behavior. Finding the source of emotion creating the action or inaction can be time consuming so therefore changing the behavior and "just doing it or just not doing it" cancels the negative emotion. All negativity comes from behavior or actions. You can think all the bad things but it is the behavior or lack of one that will get you into trouble. How hard is it to change an action?
Let us test: I propose creating the "Jump Already" Club. The purpose of the club is to not to spin our wheels analyzing and analyzing the source of our emotions, but rather changing the behavior that comes from it. Because even if your analysis is correct in the source of the emotion, ultimately your goal is to change it. I think trying to find the source empowers the source itself. All types of behaviors are welcome. If you can't pull the trigger, you're welcome. If you want to stop smoking, you're welcome. If you want to stop looking up women's skirts, you're welcome.
I'm working on the details of how the club would function and how its members might help one another, but it raises an interesting point: The realization that change can only come from a person's desire to change. It is only with them, I can't make someone change with the exception of my children and even in the best times it seems temporary.
So would a club to help one change be a bit contradictory? I don't have the details figured out yet.
Any thoughts?
I think that people ultimately know their weakness and their fears. Emotions are good until they either create a behavior which is negative. Emotions are good until they prevent a "good" behavior. Finding the source of emotion creating the action or inaction can be time consuming so therefore changing the behavior and "just doing it or just not doing it" cancels the negative emotion. All negativity comes from behavior or actions. You can think all the bad things but it is the behavior or lack of one that will get you into trouble. How hard is it to change an action?
Let us test: I propose creating the "Jump Already" Club. The purpose of the club is to not to spin our wheels analyzing and analyzing the source of our emotions, but rather changing the behavior that comes from it. Because even if your analysis is correct in the source of the emotion, ultimately your goal is to change it. I think trying to find the source empowers the source itself. All types of behaviors are welcome. If you can't pull the trigger, you're welcome. If you want to stop smoking, you're welcome. If you want to stop looking up women's skirts, you're welcome.
I'm working on the details of how the club would function and how its members might help one another, but it raises an interesting point: The realization that change can only come from a person's desire to change. It is only with them, I can't make someone change with the exception of my children and even in the best times it seems temporary.
So would a club to help one change be a bit contradictory? I don't have the details figured out yet. Any thoughts?
Quote from facultus:
For all the psych's out there my thesis:
I think that people ultimately know their weakness and their fears. Emotions are good until they either create a behavior which is negative. Emotions are good until they prevent a "good" behavior. Finding the source of emotion creating the action or inaction can be time consuming so therefore changing the behavior and "just doing it or just not doing it" cancels the negative emotion. All negativity comes from behavior or actions. You can think all the bad things but it is the behavior or lack of one that will get you into trouble. How hard is it to change an action?
Let us test: I propose creating the "Jump Already" Club. The purpose of the club is to not to spin our wheels analyzing and analyzing the source of our emotions, but rather changing the behavior that comes from it. Because even if your analysis is correct in the source of the emotion, ultimately your goal is to change it. I think trying to find the source empowers the source itself. All types of behaviors are welcome. If you can't pull the trigger, you're welcome. If you want to stop smoking, you're welcome. If you want to stop looking up women's skirts, you're welcome.
I'm working on the details of how the club would function and how its members might help one another, but it raises an interesting point: The realization that change can only come from a person's desire to change. It is only with them, I can't make someone change with the exception of my children and even in the best times it seems temporary.
Any thoughts?
First, I am not a "psych" by any means. Generally, I think your idea is a good one, however, I disagree with one of your views. You said, "I think trying to find the source empowers the source itself." Personally, I always think it is worthwhile to lift the rock and see the life forms that scurry about underneath. I have read a couple of books on cognitive therapy, notably The Feeling Good Handbook, by David Burns, MD. The premise of this approach is that distorted thoughts result in undesired emotions. Intercept the distortions in your thinking, replace them with more realistic thoughts, and the emotions will follow. Then, take action. This makes sense to me on a gut level. This form of therapy is also supposed to be one of the quickest among the alternatives employed by mainstream mental health professionals. That aspect appeals to me as well, since the idea of years of psychoanalysis is daunting.
However, as I understand it, cognitive therapy agrees with your idea of exposure to that which troubles you in order to overcome the undesirable emotion. This is quite consistent with your "Jump Already" Club. It seems that the only difference between it and what you have in mind is that it seeks to identify the source in order to better be able to neutralize it. While it's nice to be able to push-start a car when you need to get somewhere in a hurry, it would also be nice to know what caused it to stall in the first place in order to avoid something similar happening in the future. But I agree that it is all meaningless unless we "Jump Already."
I agree with both of you. One of the most pervasive criticisms of psychoanalysis was that it took a great deal of time (and money) to determine the cause of the problem. But there was always a "now what?" that was never addressed (I especially enjoy movies such as The Three Faces of Eve or Sybil: find that dramatic once-and-for-all explanation and it's Bingo! Thank you, Doctor, I'll send you a Christmas card).
The other extreme, such as with Skinnerian Behaviorism, that the reason is irrelevant as long as one re-shapes the behavior, never proved all that successful since one was treating only the symptom, not the cause. And while the root behavior may be modified because of the change in the reward structure brought about by the new behavior, this was largely a side-effect.
In the real world, in order to avoid slipping back into old habits, it's necessary to know why one developed those habits in the first place. Then one can at least develop some markers to tell him when he's regressing. Rationalization is a powerful enemy.
The other extreme, such as with Skinnerian Behaviorism, that the reason is irrelevant as long as one re-shapes the behavior, never proved all that successful since one was treating only the symptom, not the cause. And while the root behavior may be modified because of the change in the reward structure brought about by the new behavior, this was largely a side-effect.
In the real world, in order to avoid slipping back into old habits, it's necessary to know why one developed those habits in the first place. Then one can at least develop some markers to tell him when he's regressing. Rationalization is a powerful enemy.
clearing ? dude!!, isn't that l. ron hubbard and scientology ?
:eek:
surfer
Hi All,
What is all that nonsense of trying to change peoples behavior? Aren't we talking about making money by trading around here? If you don't know enough about trading to make money yourself, how are you going to help others changing in order to get rich trading?
IMHO having fear when you are going to jump of a bridge is a sign of normality in humans. Do we need psycho's research these days in order to help people jump without fear?
Denise, the best thing I can suggest to you, follow Hillary's steps. Try to make a few bucks trading commodities. Then you'll quickly find out what you are not knowing yet.
Be good,
nononsense
What is all that nonsense of trying to change peoples behavior? Aren't we talking about making money by trading around here? If you don't know enough about trading to make money yourself, how are you going to help others changing in order to get rich trading?
IMHO having fear when you are going to jump of a bridge is a sign of normality in humans. Do we need psycho's research these days in order to help people jump without fear?
Denise, the best thing I can suggest to you, follow Hillary's steps. Try to make a few bucks trading commodities. Then you'll quickly find out what you are not knowing yet.
Be good,
nononsense