Quote from Virtuoso:
Thats funny because I could have sworn you told me here that you were a very succesful trader
http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26858&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
Successful, yes... consistant, No ..... not yet.
Trade for living-how much $ do I need??
- Thread starter jimclark
- Start date
Successful, yes... consistant, No ..... not yet.
if your wife willing to go for broke then trade for how to step-by-step cook book approach http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10237&perpage=6&pagenumber=1
happy ending http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21579&highlight=40yotrader
yes, I cry a manly tear for him ;*^)
In my office there are a few traders that look like (knock) they are going to make it with $3000 starting capital and the ability to go 6 months without any income (make that nine months). As luck would have it, market conditions have allowed this to happen and a few of these traders are looking like they are about to round the curve to profitability.
Just to note these are some of the sharpest people I've met in this game. They have the right personality for this and keep their emotions in check. I've also had guys come in and lose a hell of a lot more in their first three months.
Depending on your personality, you might be able to prove some of the pundits wrong (the wife and kids thing though, hmmm...). We are are all Canadian also.
Good Luck
Lets say you have 2 1/2 times what you have now 50large and you manage to return 100% on your money (very unlikely).
50k - the mans take - your yearly nut of 24k and your equity is not much better off then where it started the year at
And you might be saying "hey thats not all that horrible - I make 50 large now at my 'day-job'". But now here is the reality of the situation 1)100% per year is not an easy thing to do and I would venture to bet that less than 1% of the people who play this game can do it for any lengthy amount of time (small account or not) and 2) It is 100 times harder when your nut is coming straight out of the market and you have a wife and child depending on you. Now how much do you think you need to take a legitimate shot at this?I personally had 60-70k when I started and was lucky enough to not only survive, but to make a decent size stake out of my account in just a few years. But looking back on it now I realize it was not a very good bet. I took way too much risk and to be honest didn't really know shit about the game. I was born on third base in the middle of a bull-market and had mistakenly thought I had hit a tripple. Play the same scenario back a 100 times over 100 different time periods in the market and I am smart/humble enough now to realize I would have fallen on my face 85 times, play it back with a family and it would be more like 97 times.
IMO it takes min 100k to make a legit go of it with 200k being the more ideal for anyone who wants to do better than just grind out a small living; ie. accumulate wealth...
Good luck...
jim..
this is how you can answer your question..
1.) Define your edge. What is the win/loss % and what is the Risk/ Reward.
2.) Get an average of how often this edge occurs every week.
If you are trading a 60% ES system with 2 pt stops and 4pts reward then the math comes up like this..
2pt stops on 1 contract is 100.00 dollars.. this is .005 of your total account.. this gives you an acceptable risk of ruin up to 4 contracts if your win rate is in line..
Now, take your total average edge occurrances for the week and divide by half.. you wont see them all.. for example.. if you get an average of 20 signals a week, use 10..
4 losses * 2pts = 8pts
6 wins * 4pts = 24pts
------------------------------
16pts *50 = 800.00
Commish = (assume 5$ roundtrip) 50
------------------------------
total expectancy per contract per week is 750.00
of course, this assumes that you:
1.) Have a system
2.) Trade that system perfectly
It is very important to be honest with yourself about what you are doing.. dont pretend you have an edge just because you read a book or two.. Also, you cant create an edge based on how much money you want.. look for something repeatable and define it in terms of average stop needed and average profit target..
This is a business, nothing more. People open businesses every day in america with 20k, 100k, 500k, and 5k.. Those who have no plan and dont work extremely hard might as well spend the money on a good vacation.. Only those who have a plan and work to implement it have a shot.. Trading is no different..
This isnt easy (in case you are under the illusion that it is a short cut to hard work).. You will pay a high price to become good in this profession..
Good luck..
-qwik
this is how you can answer your question..
1.) Define your edge. What is the win/loss % and what is the Risk/ Reward.
2.) Get an average of how often this edge occurs every week.
If you are trading a 60% ES system with 2 pt stops and 4pts reward then the math comes up like this..
2pt stops on 1 contract is 100.00 dollars.. this is .005 of your total account.. this gives you an acceptable risk of ruin up to 4 contracts if your win rate is in line..
Now, take your total average edge occurrances for the week and divide by half.. you wont see them all.. for example.. if you get an average of 20 signals a week, use 10..
4 losses * 2pts = 8pts
6 wins * 4pts = 24pts
------------------------------
16pts *50 = 800.00
Commish = (assume 5$ roundtrip) 50
------------------------------
total expectancy per contract per week is 750.00
of course, this assumes that you:
1.) Have a system
2.) Trade that system perfectly
It is very important to be honest with yourself about what you are doing.. dont pretend you have an edge just because you read a book or two.. Also, you cant create an edge based on how much money you want.. look for something repeatable and define it in terms of average stop needed and average profit target..
This is a business, nothing more. People open businesses every day in america with 20k, 100k, 500k, and 5k.. Those who have no plan and dont work extremely hard might as well spend the money on a good vacation.. Only those who have a plan and work to implement it have a shot.. Trading is no different..
This isnt easy (in case you are under the illusion that it is a short cut to hard work).. You will pay a high price to become good in this profession..
Good luck..
-qwik