Toyota is quietly pushing Congress to slow the shift to electric vehicles

[Ninja Mobile Trader VPS]

It is moves like this which show the tremendous impact of Tesla. The old automakers were never going to be the ones to push the switch to greener tech themselves. Even the companies that we may have thought were forward looking a decade ago like Toyota are now showing that they had no plans to embrace cleaner vehicles as an overall company strategy. The industry needed an outsider to threaten the incumbents into actually changing.

Toyota was once a leader in electric vehicles, with the release of the Toyota Prius in 1997. However over the last 2 decades Toyota made the incorrect bet on hydrogen powered vehicles, and is now lagging behind the rest of the industry shifting to electric vehicles.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/22594235/toyota-lobbying-dc-ev-congress-biden-donation

For those curious, here is the Toyota hydrogen-powered Mirai: https://www.toyota.com/mirai/


Meanwhile, Tesla has just reported Q2 2021 quarterly net income of $1.14 billion!

 

[SteveM]

If true, Toyota is doing a favor to humanity by pushing for this.

Our current electrical infrastructure simply cannot handle the immediate electrification of all automobiles. As it stands right now, 70% of the country of India does not have reliable electrical infrastructure. 70% of the country.

3% of the vehicles in California are electric...remember last month when the state was asking customers to reduce electricity usage because of the heatwave? How the hell can they possibly support 100% electrical automobiles?

The smartest move is for the planet to transition from gas-powered, then to hybrid, and then to fully electric vehicles over to next 30 years.

By making electric car "mandates", the government is just ensuring that people are not going to be able to reliably move freely in the future as they do now with our current gas-powered automobile infrastructure. Who knows, maybe this is the intention.

I'm all for electric vehicles, but you've got to be realistic about what is achievable in the near term.

 

[JSOP]

If true, Toyota is doing a favor to humanity by pushing for this.

Our current electrical infrastructure simply cannot handle the immediate electrification of all automobiles. As it stands right now, 70% of the country of India does not have reliable electrical infrastructure. 70% of the country.

3% of the vehicles in California are electric...remember last month when the state was asking customers to reduce electricity usage because of the heatwave? How the hell can they possibly support 100% electrical automobiles?

The smartest move is for the planet to transition from gas-powered, then to hybrid, and then to fully electric vehicles over to next 30 years.

By making electric car "mandates", the government is just ensuring that people are not going to be able to reliably move freely in the future as they do now with our current gas-powered automobile infrastructure. Who knows, maybe this is the intention.

I'm all for electric vehicles, but you've got to be realistic about what is achievable in the near term.

I agree as well. Hydrogen-powered cars is actually better for the environment in that it does not contain huge battery packs that will eventually be a headache for the environment in terms of its recycling and handling once they are all used up. Hydrogen fuel cells are lighter and packed denser so the gas mileage is lot better; it's lot more energy-efficient than lithium battery cars. The only downside of it is the flammable issue that can cause deadly explosions but once this issue is eliminated, hydrogen is the future and will eventually be the choice of alternative energy to power cars.

Toyota is right in lobbying Congress to slow the progressing towards electric cars so it can buy more time to do research and development on hydrogen power.

 

[terr]

Hydrogen-powered cars is actually better for the environment in that it does not contain huge battery packs that will eventually be a headache for the environment in terms of its recycling and handling once they are all used up. Hydrogen fuel cells are lighter and packed denser so the gas mileage is lot better; it's lot more energy-efficient than lithium battery cars. The only downside of it is the flammable issue that can cause deadly explosions but once this issue is eliminated, hydrogen is the future and will eventually be the choice of alternative energy to power cars.

One huge downside compared to electric cars is that you can charge an electric car at home. You cannot do that with a hydrogen-powered car. So other than solving the problem of efficient and sufficient hydrogen storage in a moving vehicle (that has not been solved) you face the problem of building an enormous and expensive nation-wide hydrogen refueling infrastructure.

 

[JSOP]

One huge downside compared to electric cars is that you can charge an electric car at home. You cannot do that with a hydrogen-powered car. So other than solving the problem of efficient and sufficient hydrogen storage in a moving vehicle (that has not been solved) you face the problem of building an enormous and expensive nation-wide hydrogen refueling infrastructure.

yeah but that problem is a demand/supply issue that would be eliminated once hydrogen-powered cars are more prevalent. Hence is Toyota's efforts in appealing for the slowdown in the progression towards battery-electric cars, to give hydrogen power a chance.

 

[Overnight]

...you face the problem of building an enormous and expensive nation-wide hydrogen refueling infrastructure.

I used to think that as well about electric charging stations. Apparently they are dotted all over the country to the point where there are not many stretches of road where you cannot go without being able to charge the car.

Of course, the problem with electric is, "Where does the power come from"? Well, it comes mostly from fossil fuels.

Hydrogen? Well, where does that come from? Oh, electrolysis of water? Well, where does the electricity for hydrolysis of water come from? It comes from fossil fuels.

But is is a slightly better idea than electricity from the plug.

 

[terr]

I used to think that as well about electric charging stations. Apparently they are dotted all over the country to the point where there are not many stretches of road where you cannot go without being able to charge the car.

Well that's a lot simpler Electricity is already widely available and has a huge generation/distribution network. There is no such network for hydrogen.

Hydrogen? Well, where does that come from? Oh, electrolysis of water? Well, where does the electricity for hydrolysis of water come from? It comes from fossil fuels.

But is is a slightly better idea than electricity from the plug.

If it would come from electrolysis of water that would definitely NOT be a "slightly better idea" than electricity from the plug. Electrolysis is about 80% efficient. Hydrogen fuel cell is about 60% efficient. So, compared to using electricity directly, you're losing 50% of energy right there. Compare that with 5% loss in electrical distribution plus around 85% Li-ion battery efficiency - which comes to around 20% loss. Hydrogen-from-electrolysis would be at a huge disadvantage.

 

[Nobert]

But being ignorant & then covering it up with ,,This is better" & ,,This is worse", is pathetic/pity as well.

 

[Cesiuko]

Now this is a very popular trend, so the force of large companies is moving to this level.

 

[VicBee]

You guys are talking as if this was still debatable when it's not. Europe has already mandated the elimination of ICE vehicles by 2035 as well as half a dozen US states. That's done and EVs are the standard. Can there be alts like hydrogen power? Sure, like Betamax tapes were used in some specific industries, but VHS became the standard.

So yes, electricity will come from polluting producers for a while longer, so oil and gaz will be around for another 20-30 years for sure. But coal is practically over, at least in western nations. Electricity from clean sources will continue to increase, with tech efficiencies, inventions, etc. until some day 100% of energy will come from clean sources. But by then ICE vehicles will be long gone.