Totalview a Scam & Question for eSignal

D

davez

I've been using Totalview and Powerview for a week now, and unless I'm missing something, these are scams. If I am wrong, I'd welcome hearing why.

These were billed as giving everyone a total view of market liquidity. But in Totalview, you can't see the non-supermontage members (which are most of the ECN's, I believe). So here is significant market liquidity (the ECN's) that can't be seen in Totalview.

In Powerview, you can see the ECN's, but you can't see the multiple MM orders. So again, a restricted view of market liquidity.

Personally, I can't trade without seeing the ECN's, so I'm using Powerview (without the Depthview window open) which as far as I can see, is identical to using Level II

I was expecting maybe that in Depthview (the upper window) of Powerview that the effect of multiple MM orders would be visible, but so far I haven't been able to see this.

eSignal, can you answer three questions for me?
1. Does the extra liquidity of multiple MM's orders appear in the Depthview window of Powerview?
2. Does the extra liquidity of multiple MM orders appear in the eSignal depth meter of Powerview?
3. What does the Shown column mean in Depthview, and why is it often '0' when I can see orders by MM's at that price level?

The above scam(?) is a nasdaq issue, not an eSignal issue, but I can't get answers via nasdaqtrader.com, so hopefully eSignal has the clout to get these answers. I expect the answer to be that there is no enhanced view of market liquidity (due to multiple MM orders) in Powerview.

I've read other posts about Totalview on this site, and though the question has been asked, I haven't seen one response saying these new views have been helpful. So I'll ask again. And also for clarification if I am wrong in anything above.

Thank you in advance
 
I agree with you that ECN book should be fully integrated in the TotalView, or maybe eSignal could give the option to hide/show them in this view, but a Totalview should be «Total» IMO.

I think the TotalView is a valuable thing, but without ECN, we miss something very important ...
 
Quote from davez:


1. Does the extra liquidity of multiple MM's orders appear in the Depthview window of Powerview?
2. Does the extra liquidity of multiple MM orders appear in the eSignal depth meter of Powerview?
3. What does the Shown column mean in Depthview, and why is it often '0' when I can see orders by MM's at that price level?
More...

1. Yes, under the Total column. Please note that the Total Column only accounts for SuperMontage Participants.
2. No. The Depth Meter is only taking into account the quote area of the given window.
3. The Shown column in Depth View should equal the total size listed quote area for each price level. There is a bug that can cause this to switch to zero under certain conditions.

I hope this clears up any confusion.
 
Jay,
Yes, that did clear up my confusion, thanks - the '0' threw me. But having said that, in my latest attempt to use these views (see answer below), I now don't look at the Shown column.


North Pesos,
Today I had Powerview open (without DepthView) and TotalView open (with DepthView), and both with the depth meters showing.

It was relatively easy to compare the two depth meters. When there were noticeable difference, a glance at the Depthview window of TotalView would show where the 'extra' liquidity (in addition to L2) was.

That seemed to work, at the price of some extra monitor real estate.

I sure would like to hear how others are using these views.

Cheers
Davez
 
NASDAQ TotalView is designed to allow vendors to show the liquidity BOTH inside and outside of SuperMontage. Some vendors have elected to show ECN data together with SuperMontage data and others have not - as of yet. Whether the data is integrated is determined by the vendor.

In comparing TotalView to PowerView, you are correct - TotalView definitely shows you more detail. PowerView was developed as a lower-cost option that provided a summarized glimpse inside SuperMontage. However, after launching the products, NASDAQ discovered that most traders prefer to see the full detailed data inside SuperMontage. As a result, on October 1st, 2003, NASDAQ simplified its data offerings to include only Level II and TotalView (which contains Level II). We also reduced the TotalView fee to make it accessible to more traders (adding TotalView to Level II costs only $5 per month for ‘non-professionals’).

In any case, vendors make their own decisions on how they choose to display NASDAQ depth data. For example, some vendors have elected to still show TotalView data in summary format (like you were seeing in PowerView). Other vendors are showing it in detailed format, integrated with ECN data.

Traders I have spoken with have told me they find NASDAQ TotalView data helpful in two ways: 1) knowing they can see the same information that professional traders on NASDAQ trading floors see reassures them that they are trading with the maximum information available. 2) seeing additional quotes from SuperMontage participants - particularly at times of market volatility when they often see hundreds of thousands of shares of depth not visible in Level II- helps them make important trading decisions.

Also, on your question #1 for eSignal, I’d mention that the NASDAQ “DepthView” WOULD include NASDAQ market makers’ multiple quotes. Again, it is up to individual vendors whether or not they want to augment this compilation component with other ECN information.

Thank you,
RandallH_NASDAQ
 
Thanks for the reply Randall.

I gave up trying to understand exactly who was part of supermontage and who wasn't. What I do know though is that some very active market participants, inca, arcx and ISLD (cinn) must not be supermontage participants, because they never seem to appear in Totalview, isn't that correct?

You mentioned something about ECN data being integrated into Totalview, maybe this is something I'm missing. Let's use a simple example. Say the inside bids were:

inca 22.6
cinn 22.5
arcx 22.4
MSCO 22.3
GSCO 22.2

and the inside offers were:
cinn 22.7
inca 22.8
arcx 22.9
SCHB 30.0
BTRD 30.1

Powerview's lower window (which is exactly level 2, I believe?) would show the inside market at 22.6 x 22.7. Good.

But in Totalview am I not correct in saying that the quotes of 22.4, 22.5, 22.6, 22.7, 22.8 and 22.9 would not appear anywhere, in either Totalview's upper (depthview) or lower windows? Wouldn't Totalview, in this example, show an inside market of 22.3 x 30.0?

I'll await your answer on this, 'cause if I'm wrong, I've got my wires crossed somewhere.

Thanks again
Dave
 
Dave,

Thanks again for your inquiry.

You are correct: inca, arcx and ISLD (cinn) are not currently SuperMontage participants.

The balance of your question is a little bit more complicated, mostly because it is a function of whatever vendor you’re using – I’ll see if I can clarify though.

Some vendors integrate SuperMontage data with non-SuperMontage data and others do not. Let’s say that in PowerView, your vendor integrates SuperMontage data with non-SuperMontage data. In that case, it is EXACTLY as you say:

On the bid side the vendor shows:

inca 22.6
cinn 22.5
arcx 22.4
MSCO 22.3
GSCO 22.2

and on the offers side:
cinn 22.7
inca 22.8
arcx 22.9
SCHB 30.0
BTRD 30.1

The inside market would therefore be 22.6 x 22.7. From the description in your post, that appears to be what is happening with your vendor.

Now let’s move to TotalView. IF the vendor integrates both SuperMontage and NonSuperMontage data in their TotalView screens, then the quotes would read as follows:

On the bid side the vendor shows:

inca 22.6
cinn 22.5
arcx 22.4
MSCO 22.3
MSCO 22.2
GSCO 22.2
GSCO 22.1

and on the offers side:
cinn 22.7
inca 22.8
arcx 22.9
SCHB 30.0
BTRD 20.0
BTRD 30.1
SCHB 30.1

In this case, the inside would still be reflected as 22.6 x 22.7.

IF - on the other hand - the vendor chose NOT to integrate the SuperMontage data with the non-SuperMontage data in their TotalView display, then the quotes would be as follows:

On the bid side the vendor shows:

MSCO 22.3
MSCO 22.2
GSCO 22.2
GSCO 22.1

and on the offers side:

SCHB 30.0
BTRD 30.0
BTRD 30.1
SCHB 30.1

In this instance, the inside quote reflected in the quote display window would be 22.3 x 30.0.

Hope this helps! Let me know if I can clarify further.
Randall
 
That was very informative, thanks Randall. I did not realize that different vendors have different versions of these views.
-------------------------------------------------------
Powerview:

Your assumption is correct, my vendor, eSignal, does integrate SuperMontage and non-SM data in Powerview, to a limited extent. I'll refer to the three components of esignal's Powerview to define the limited extent.

1. Depth meter: graphically shows the depth of the market (the 'true' top five levels), based on the data in the lower, Level 2 window. So this meter reflects BOTH SM and non-SM liquidity, but does not include multiple orders. I use this the most.

2 Depthview: shows the consolidated multiple orders, but shows no non-SM info. Hence, this may not (likely will not) show the true inside market, if non-SM members alone occupy the best bid/ask positions. This window will be identical to the Totalview Depthview, except for the Shown columns. Personally, I close this window down, because it gets in between easily matching the depth meter to the actual prices in the lower window

3. Quote window: This is identical to Level 2. No multiple orders are shown.
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Totalview

eSignal does not, it seems, integrate both SM and non-SM info into their Totalview. Their three Totalview components are:

1. Depth meter: reflects the liquidity of the lower quote window, which excludes non-SM members, but in this case includes multiple quotes. I keep this open to watch for differences with the PV depth meter, and am determining if this can act to filter out MM 'games'.

2. Depthview: identical to that in Powerview, except for different Shown columns. Again, no non-SM liquidity included here. I keep this open to see the price level where the 'hidden pockets of liquidity', as shown in the depth meter may exist.

3. Quote window: Here the multiple SM orders are shown, broken down at each price level by MMID. Again, no non-SM liquidity included here. I hide this. Most multiple orders I've seen use SIZE anyway, and I'm not sure this isn't an opportunity for more MM games - am I wrong?
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So, all that above description was a lead in to my question: In the case where you've said some vendors DO integrate SM and non-SM info into Totalview, can you tell me what changes in their views, as compared to eSignals? In which Totalview components by other vendors would you see the 'always true' inside market? A screen cap of Totalview which includes some non-SM members would help.

There is a 4th 'window' can be seen in the above eSignal views, that could include Level 1 data, but I assume you mean more than that when you mention SM and non-SM data integration in Totalview?

Based on the above descriptions, I can see more market data in Powerview than Totalview, and therefore my original question: How was Totalview supposed to give a more complete picture of liquidity? Though it may show those hidden liquidity pockets, it doesn't show (in the views I have) the true inside market, which is at least as important, imo. I'll look forward to your response

Thanks again
davez
 
If anyone is using a version of Totalview that, in addition to showing multiple orders, also shows best bids/offers of non-supermontage participants (inca, cinn, arcx, etc), so that the inside market is always seen, I would appreciate if you'd post a screen cap of it.

Thanks in advance
 
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