Topsteptrader

SimpleMeLike said:
David,

You make good points. I was in the $50k as well. After the rule change, whice I like the removal of 10 days, i went to $30k. Per my system past results and my work schedule it would take some time to make $6000, ($3000 in combine and $3000 in FTP) AND prevent a drawdown of $2000 two times starting from $0. Well 3 times if you count once I get funded starting from $0 again. That's a big challenge for a trader. And to prevent that drawdown, 1 contract is somewhat a must.

Of course, the best scenario, is for me to prove I can make is to use my own capital and make my own money, but only i know when I need to do that.

I am not complaining against TST just stating some facts and I understand your compliant.

Overall, i am content with TST. I understand the risk, challenge, advantages and disadvantages. But your point is something to think about.
More...

Yes, fair enough
If you find benefit, then that's good.

Just, in my opinion, everything is hugely more time consuming now
Which makes it less appealing as somewhere I would like to base my career
 
David Gr said:
Yes, fair enough
If you find benefit, then that's good.

Just, in my opinion, everything is hugely more time consuming now
Which makes it less appealing as somewhere I would like to base my career
More...

David Gr,

I believe (and I could be wrong) if a trader have a trading system/strategy/plan (that does not experience a drawdown of $2000) that they have back or forward tested and have proven stats to be profitable over a sample size of trades, and have the discipline and time to trade that system, then they should save up $2000 including margin and trade their own account.

I am doing the above AND using TST ($30K account) as a forward testing with the hopes of getting pass the $1500 combine and FTP and eventually funded, while saving my cash flow.

So I am working towards the same goal in 2 different avenues. Both have advantages in my favor.
 
David Gr said:
Having used the TST system for many years, I can say that increasing the profit target by three times what it previously was, has no benefit for the trader. It just makes it a longer process to eventually become funded, wasting the traders time and money

(These comments are based on the most popular '$50,000$ combine')

The old targets were $3,000 in the combine, and $1,000 in the FTP, under strict rules.
If you could achieve this, then that is plenty of evidence you can trade.
It would take a long time to achieve this. Valuable unpaid work the trader has to put in
For years TST claimed they had many successful traders from this

Now with the new targets of $3,000 in the combine, and $3,000 in the FTP.
The trader has to waste more of his/her valuable time, with hard unpaid work
It doesn't prove you're a better trader if you can earn $4,000 or $6,000
It just means their client base spends longer in training, so they have to put less of their money at risk in the funded account

For me, it appears to indicate that TST know their business model is making money out having traders in training. Not trading a live account
More...

Agreed, the same target rule on FTP is pretty wack although you won't have a time limit....so you do have the option to wait for high probability setups forever.

I blew my first combine getting very emotional, overtrading, tilt, etc. Trying to really retain trading within the rules was hard at the start. And once you push your account to max drawdown, you have an even harder time getting to target with limited time(who wants to pay monthly for a sim? when that could go to hookers and blow kidding of course) and also within daily loss limit rules.

I started my new combine, this time as a new trader by realizing all my weaknesses(I analyzed after my first loss on the combine-huge ego shaker) all the mistakes I needed to fix. First day on new combine and I am already at half of my target level. By having a certain set of rules, and STAYING disciplined I hope to get to FTP by the next 2 weeks max.

Of course chop hell can come anytime in the markets......so stops are in, emotions are out!
Honestly I see TST as a great risk/reward setup for me. I'm taking a maximum risk of $150 a month to not overtrade my real account and end up with $1000+ loss and the potential to earn $5000 in real cash if I play the 3 stages right, control risk, and trade well. Certainly time is also a factor but I just see it as a $150 call option :p

Also learning the futures game for $150 a month is a bargain compared to the tuition I've paid for and still do trying to master the hardest game in the world.
 
speedo said:
The notional value is a side issue, the real issue is the margin. I'v been trading the ES for years and my comfort level is around 5k per contract. Could I achieve the same income from using 2-3k?, sure but that would compromise my comfort level and it's not worth it. 4 or 5 hundred per??...would sooner buy lottery tickets. But don't let me discourage you ;)
More...

I disagree. Loss amount is loss amount. If your max risk is $200 per contract then why does it matter if you trade it for the minimum margin plus your risk amount or full contract price ? Using the day trade margin actually forces you to be more disciplined. I personally like to use $2,000 per contract on ES but very often will take the minimum $500 plus the amount of risk to achieve the lot size on my trade.
 
Tempest in a teapot...

volente_00 said:
https://www.tradingschools.org/topstep-trader-vs-oneup-trader/
More...

This is pretty funny. After a quick read, my opinion of Emmett's view:

1. Emmett calls TST a scam. ( ‘hamster wheel’ , “fake” proprietary trading company )
2. He thinks more of these similar companies entering this scamming market is somehow good for us traders. I guess lowering scamming prices or something...
3. If you visit OneUp's website, they charge similar prices as TST, so the scammed public doesn't get a break. Although their rules are more relaxed than TST's.

So if TST is a scam, why are we now better that we have 2 very similar companies scamming us? More opportunities for the average retail trader wanna be???

P.S.: Emmett promised us a 2nd part on TST, but we never got it.

------------------------------

A note on the lawsuit. Emmett's summary of it is somehow off. It is not about the usage of Rithmic, but copying their business model and combine rules. I don't think the business model can be patented, but the truth is the OneUp's combine model is a straight copy of TST's combine. They didn't even try to alter it much.

It reminds me when Amazon patented 1-click buying:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Click

They did license it to Apple, but Europe's patent office told them to knock it off. It expires this year by the way...

So this lawsuit is basically Amazon vs. Barnes&Nobles over 1-Click. Barnes eventually introduced a second click, so not to be the exact same as Amazon's.
 
Last edited:
Oh boy, they have 200+ responses there but about 190 of them are shit posts. But here is a good opinion:

"Rob B

I mentioned in the MES review I thought that business model was flawed and would fail and I will tell you why I think that.

IMHO this is similar to the problem with Obama Care. You end up with all the healthy folks leaving and end up with a pool of very sick people.

Let say you have this underfunded amazing trader who does not even have the funds to open a futures account. He then passes the combine and starts to make money. Why would he stay with a company taking part of this profits. As soon as he saves enough he would be out of there. The only way he would stay is if they pay him a generous salary to trade their money like GS does for its traders."
 
OK, just to mess with Emmett, I read his glowing review of T3 trading group, what is a proprietary firm backing traders, so kind of similar to TST and OneUp.

https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/t3-trading-group/

First, the failure rate: "According to Anthony Guarraci, who has been a full-time prop trader for the past 18 years, the failure rate is about 92%."

No doubt about it, this is a hard business to succeed in. But my point here is that the failure rate of a successful prop shop is the same as TST's, although their rules are very different.

Important sidenote: 8% profitable doesn't mean 8% making a living:

" One year I show a loss of $137,902 and then another year I see a gain of $4,243,855, but from what I have read they have over 300 traders so per trader that is not very much money."

So the average trader made less than 13K in a good year.

Second, there is that sweet story about the blue collar worker driving a cab and using his last 2.5K money to eventually make 14 million bucks.

"Much closer to the end of his life, than the beginning, he decided on a radical career change. He decided he wanted to be one of those fancy guys he was always driving around in his cab. Somehow he stumbled into T3 Trading Group. With $2,500 to his name and absolutely no financial sophistication, he willed himself to learn.
It took a while, but he eventually turned his $2,500 into $14,000,000. Yes, you are reading that correctly."

I mean seriously. I cried. And laughed. And cried again. Now where do I sign up???

P.S.: I completely agree with the first commenter, JJ Peters.

Another interesting comment:

"There was also a leak that showed that in 2015/2016 the trading profits for all of T3 traders combined was $50,000 or so. So that tells us they make ALL their money off commissions and products and not as profitable traders. "

So if this is true, how come T3 gets 5 stars and TST gets 1 star??? Emmett?

Wait, this gets better:

"Also this review contradicts your earlier review as T3 has some of the same team members as Pristine trading. In your earlier review you termed the team behind Pristine trading as con artists."

Ouch!!!!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top