Topsteptrader

[SimpleMeLike]

Okay I signed up for TST and I have a few questions.

TST dashboard will show all your stats, and commission, etc. Don't worry on that.

How exactly do we monitor our unrealized net P&L including commissions when Ninjatrader does not seem to calculate that on the account summary? NT only shows our net P$L. I can understand how to include unrealized by looking at our positions tab, but how do we keep in check previous commissions and fees???

Can you please dumb down max daily drawdown? So if my max is $1500 on the 30k, that means if I lose $500 on the first day I if I lose $1000 more on that account(not in one day of course) , I'm out?>

Hello,

Yes, you are right.

Yes, think of the $1500 as your account balance that follows you as your account increases. Don't ever lose more then $1500 or you will fail the combine. As i just recently did cause my system started to drawdown .

Think hard about how your trading plan will endure a series of losses that does not lose more then $1500. Or deal with it and pay the $150 again. But when you get to funded account, best to have a solution how to deal with it or start alll over again.

Think about the drawdown before starting combine and have odds in your favor how you can not hit it during all 3 phases.

I am talking from actually experience here.

 

[David Gr]

Top Step Trader have recently TRIPLED their profit target for their second stage 'Funded Trader Preparation'

So, for example, in the '$50,000' account, you have to trade the first stage called a 'combine' and hit a target of $3,000 profit, under very strict conditions.
Once completed you then have to start again from $0, and hit another profit target of $3,000, with even stricter conditions !!!! (this was formally $1,000 target)

If you ever get a funded account, and you break the rules, you will have to go all the way back to the beginning again ..... Yes, that means achieving those two $3,000 targets again (and paying the monthly fees for the combine)

This is clearly a step that proves Top Step trader are about keeping you in the training stage as long as possible, and not about funding traders.



Look at more closely what you actually get if you do ever reach a funded trader account :

They allow you to trade a maximum 2 lots, to start with (using '$50,000' account example)
They only allow intra-day trading
The margin requirements for S&P Emini, the most popular instrument, is just $400/lot
So they are actually only putting up $800, if you trade S&P emini intra-day

Why would you pay Top Step Trader lots of money to sit on their simulator for a huge length of time, when at the end of it you can only trade two lots ?

Just get a free demo account, trade that to practice, then use $800 to trade your own two lot S&P Emini Account.


Top Step Trader say they have a 'scaling' plan so you can trade more lots in the future. However, you have to create enough profits to trade those extra lots.
If you were trading your own account, and you created that profit, then you could trade more lots because you have more money in your trading account for margin !! So there is no added benefit from Top Step

 

[Xela]

Top Step Trader have recently TRIPLED their profit target for their second stage 'Funded Trader Preparation'

That's one way of putting it.

Another would be to say that now that TST have - in response to popular feedback - made some further changes to their system, and made all the other parameters of the Combine and the FTP the same (because so many people, including many posting here, had complained that they were different), they've understandably made the profit targets the same, as well.

This is clearly a step that proves Top Step trader are about keeping you in the training stage as long as possible, and not about funding traders.

Call me naive, but it continues to astonish me that people can (apparently) genuinely believe stuff like this.

Not only are they are successfully funding many hundreds of people per year, but every now and again they also change the rules to make it easier for people to become funded. And whenever they do, it works, and more people do get funded. And we can all see that for ourselves. It's not like there's any big mystery about it. They publish the usernames of the people succeeding in the Combine and FTP and getting funded.

I have no dog in this fight, either way - I'm not in TST's target market and have absolutely no intention of using their service at all, myself, but I do feel sorry for them when people post nonsense like this about them. How trollish/prejudiced can you get?!

A "brand new member/first-time poster, too" (unsurprisingly enough).

there is no added benefit from Top Step

Apart from for all the hundreds of people who have trading skills but don't have enough capital to trade futures on their own account, you mean? They all seem to disagree with you about that, don't they? And there are many hundreds of them.

 

[David Gr]

I'm not sure if you work for TST or not, as you're incredibly critical of the information/facts I have posted, and your response almost sounds like one of their customer service emails

I maybe a first time poster on this board (googled top step trader today, to see if anyone else had the same issues). But I'm sure I have decades more experience in this field than you

I'm not trolling anybody. Your response is more of a troll, as it doesn't discuss facts, just your unusually bias opinions. How can you be that pro-TST if you have never used them ?

I have used TST for years, and feel this increase in target (without an increase in drawdown limits), can only serve to keep people in training for much longer

Let's have a debate about all the points in my post, rather than name calling

So please .... continue with your discussion about all the points I have raised ......

 

[David Gr]

Apart from for all the hundreds of people who have trading skills but don't have enough capital to trade futures on their own account, you mean? They all seem to disagree with you about that, don't they? And there are many hundreds of them.

As I said.
You only need $800 to trade 2 lots of S&P Emini intraday, on your own live account, with the same broker TST use.

If you look at the percentage success rate for those that actually get a funded account, you'll get an understanding of how much, on average, traders pay in total monthly TST combine fees.

I would estimate that is close to, if not more, than the $800 you need to open your own account, to trade live on the CME exchange (with the same broker TST use)

 

[SimpleMeLike]

I would estimate that is close to, if not more, than the $800 you need to open your own account, to trade live on the CME exchange (with the same broker TST use)

David Gr,

I appreciate your comments.

I understand I need $800 of margin to trade the /ES, with 2 contracts.

Where will I get the $5800 ($5000 + 800 = $5800) in capital I need to trade my system?

Thanks,

 

[David Gr]

David Gr,

I appreciate your comments.

I understand I need $800 of margin to trade the /ES, with 2 contracts.

Where will I get the $5800 ($5000 + 800 = $5800) in capital I need to trade my system?

Thanks,

Hi.

If you're saying you need $5800 to trade your system,
Do you mean you need a drawdown facility of up to $5800 ?
Or your need to trade 10+ lots, which needs a larger margin deposit ?

Top Step Trader offer neither of these for starter funded accounts

So I don't know of any other route, besides savings

 

[SimpleMeLike]

Hi.

If you're saying you need $5800 to trade your system,
Do you mean you need a drawdown facility of up to $5800 ?

David Gr,

I think I understand your point. And you may have a valid one.

Correct me if I am wrong below if this is what you mean?

So, what you are stating is: If a trader system/strategy can be traded with $2000 capital (not including margin of $800) why go to TST to trade? Why the trader does not just use their own capital of say $2800 (round to $3000 to make the math easy) to trade, rather then paper trade to make $3000 paper in combine, then another $3000 paper in funded preparation stage? Then rebuild, let's say another $3000, again in funded stage.

That's a great valid point you mentioned if I understand you correctly.

I honestly, can't answer, cause you have a valid point.

Thanks

 

[David Gr]

David Gr,

I think I understand your point. And you may have a valid one.

Correct me if I am wrong below if this is what you mean?

Thanks

It's roughly there.

I think the maximum you can lose with TST, is somewhere around $1000 (on the most popular starter account), so that is the size of account you are actually trading.

If it takes you 6 months in the combine before you get a funded account (this might include going to the Funded Trader Preparation (FTP) stage, failing, and having to start again). Then that is 6 * $165 (on the most popular account) = $990.

So you would have spent $990 to get an account which is $1000

It's very rough maths.
However, my point is, by making the second stage (FTP) harder, with a larger profit target, it means more likely time spent in training, and potentially more time back in the combine paying fees. Before ever seeing a funded account.

Why not just use a free simulator, and use the money you save not paying for the TST combine, on your own trading account ?


Of course it's up to the individual, and some people may find Top Step Traders structure beneficial.

I'm just disappointed to see what was already a tough hurdle to achieve, made even harder. Where the final reward could be less than what you've already spent in fees to TST

 

[Overnight]

...
I have used TST for years, and feel this increase in target (without an increase in drawdown limits), can only serve to keep people in training for much longer
...

You have been funded with them for years? Or you have been jumping in and out of their Combine for years?