Topsteptrader

Anyhow he is not doing combines because he wants to be a backed trader. He does them because:

1. He uses the sim as a track record for his business. Last year he had a 15K real account for a few months, but I guess didn't do well...
2. He has an affiliation with TST, thus driving business towards them.

He switched to the 50K most likely because that is what most Combiners use, so he is accommodating them. Strangely February and March records are missing...

If he's moderating a chat room then he cannot show a real time LIVE DOM as it would violate CFTC rules. The trades must be simulated. This is standard for chat rooms that have a moderator who isn't registered and shows his/her DOM.

Maybe he would rather earn commission from subscriptions than obtain a backed account. It's his choice, as long as the customers recognize he's on SIM.
 
If you want to know more about the room, read the comment section on Emmett's site, at the original review.

http://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/oil-trading-group-review/

Here's a comment by "Rob B" from the comments section in the review, which injects a dose of reality regarding EQUITY in the account to sustain a draw:


"I no nothing about Jason, but I do know about real world trading and I am sure some if not many will disagree with what I say here. But there is a reason 95% of traders lose money day trading. They trade in what I call the fantasy world. It would take an essay to explain. But in simplicity the fantasy world is where you have a $5,000 account, expect to make $250K a year using an arbitrary 10 tick stop loss, expect an 80% win rate and take home a paycheck of $1000 per day. They expect this picture perfect equity curve that just goes straight up or maybe has a small draw down. The fact is the reason most day traders lose money and blow their account is they are delusional. They do not even want to hear what real trading is like or even look at facts to what are reasonable returns a day trader can expect to make.

Real trading is messy, very messy. You can easily get 30-40% draw downs, which means if you want to make $250K you better be prepared for a $100K draw down. And I can guaranty you the draw down occurs before the winning. Hard to do that on a $5K account. Churning and whipsaw is normal and yes big winning days are not every day occurrences. In Real World trading you might be down for 29 days then on day 30 make all your money for the month. Well I will get off my soap box as this it would take an essay to explain. But Jason churning or losing money for awhile says nothing about his ability to trade profitable. Again I know nothing about Jason or ever watched him trade."
 
@ScalperJoe

I know the comments are not yours, but anyone that lets themselves get down $100K has serious issues with their trading. If you are down even $10k in the futures market i would stop immediately and re-evaluate what the hell is going on. Unless you are trading HUGE size it should never get that bad.
 
Let's take a look of the "complaints" and see if any of them have genuine merit:

  • Its a hamster wheel
  • I thought that once I passed the combine, I would receive a trading account that was identical to the combine
  • I didnt know that I had to pay the exchange $85 to $200 a month in “professional” exchange fee’s
  • Nobody told me about the Trader Prep Period
  • They only give you 10 days to make money
  • I wasted money on a TopStep Trader recommended mentor
  • They intentionally confuse to keep collecting monthly combine fee’s
"Its a hamster wheel"

Where does it state that the combine is "easy" to pass, lol. The smaller combines (in my opinion) are NOT designed to make you money in the live account, given the 10 day rule. You simply won't have built up enough equity. To avoid the "hamster wheel" one may want to consider the smaller combines for training purposes only, and then take the 100k/150k combines only when ready. The larger combines at least provide higher odds of generating enough equity.

"I thought that once I passed the combine, I would receive a trading account that was identical to the combine"

Apparently, traders who make this complaint have a deficit in their ability to conduct proper due diligence (and obviously haven't read this thread on ET or the BMT site). If you look at the TST site itself, then you will find ALL of the parameters spelled out in the FAQ's and within the links to the rules! Obviously, the live account is NOT the same as the combine account, given the added rules.

"I didn't know that I had to pay the exchange $85 to $200 a month in 'professional' exchange fees"

Here is what the site says: "Funded Traders are responsible for the data fee cost charged by the exchange." However, I think TST could have more transparency with this fee, especially for those who choose to trade contracts on multiple exchanges.

"Nobody told me about the Trader Prep Period"

Why does anyone have to "tell you" about it, lol! Again, this is the fault of the trader who fails to conduct proper due diligence. The rules are CLEARLY spelled out on "Step 2" of the funding program on the TST site.

"They only give you 10 days to make money"

Ok, I agree this is a legitimate complaint. Yes, the "10 day" rule is quite restrictive. The combine is continuous, but the live account only allows for the equity build up over 10 days. This IS the biggest drawback in the TST program, and has been discussed extensively on ET and the BMT site.

There was a trader from Taiwan who took six months to pass the combine, but if you reviewed his stats, he was very consistent. He never hit the daily draw, and stayed away from the max draw. In my opinion, adhering to the TST combine rules for SIX STRAIGHT MONTHS is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Most traders posting here couldn't do it (myself included). But this particular trader did. However, given the 10 day rule, his average equity balance would have been less than $200 in his live account. My guess is he blew up the live account, because $200 is a PIKER account, and you cannot make money in a highly leveraged environment as a piker. He had several days in the combine where he lost $200, however he was still able to generate the $1,500 required to pass the combine, trading part time at night while working full time. TST's 10 day rule means even though he had potential, he would get "kicked back to the combine" much sooner, and thus trading a "funded" account is meaningless.

"I wasted money on a TopStep Trader recommended mentor"

Education isn't mandatory, it's an option, and of course subject to one's opinion.

"They intentionally confuse to keep collecting monthly combine fees"

TST has changed its rules from time to time, however the rules have been mostly in favor of the trader. Besides, if you simply read the FAQ's, the rules are spelled out. If there is still "confusion" then why not just ask?

Perhaps traders who approach the TST model have difficulty separating fantasy from reality. Prop shop equity traders think they will turn a $5,000 account with 20x bp into a sustainable monthly income stream. An AMP customer may think placing a $500 minimum account balance to trade 1 lot of ES will make him rich. He may not have conducted the basic research that 1 lot of ES is equivalent to trading 500 shares of SPY. Under normal market conditions, SPY has an ATR of $2, so a daily swing of 500 shares will move your P&L by $1,000. Obviously, $500 is not enough, except to attract dreamers who will end up churning commission.

TST suggests (by the combine metrics) that it will take $10,000 of EQUITY, not margin, not buying power, but EQUITY to trade ONE lot of whatever product you choose. This is directly correlated to the daily draw allowance of 1.6% to 3% of the simulated funds.

So using their own rules as a guide, if it takes $10k of EQUITY to trade ONE lot, then how do you expect to make any significant gains, especially when you only have 10 days to build up your equity from the "$0" starting balance in the live account?

Apparently nobody on Emmett's site asked another math question: "why does the 10k 'piker' combine allow for a 10% trailing draw, whereby the largest 150k 'big boy' combine which is much more difficult to trade, has a 3% trailing draw?"

If you simply conduct proper due diligence, then it's reasonable to conclude that the combine offers a way to learn the process of examining your strengths and weakness(es) as a trader in a real time simulated environment with strict risk parameters. The key is to then find ways to improve your stats. THAT is the true value of the combine, where the opportunity cost is the "blow up" of your own retail account.


AKA

Hamster wheel

"TST's 10 day rule means even though he had potential, he would get "kicked back to the combine" much sooner, and thus trading a "funded" account is meaningless"
 
@ScalperJoe

I know the comments are not yours, but anyone that lets themselves get down $100K has serious issues with their trading. If you are down even $10k in the futures market i would stop immediately and re-evaluate what the hell is going on. Unless you are trading HUGE size it should never get that bad.

I agree, his example/comment regarding a "100k draw" was rather extreme. Although it's all relative to account size, a 100k draw on a 250k account is 40%. You stated correctly that "it should never get that bad."

I think his point was simply that traders are "delusional" if they want to take a minimal equity $5k account and expect a consistent 1k payday on a 10 tick stop loss.
 
AKA

Hamster wheel

"TST's 10 day rule means even though he had potential, he would get "kicked back to the combine" much sooner, and thus trading a "funded" account is meaningless"

Yes, for that particular trader who showed six months worth of trading consistency, the live account had low odds to support his trading style, given the 10 day rule.
 
Someone posted this link on another thread.

https://proptraders.biz/

Looks like TST now has a Russian competitor. They want $750 on their version of the 150k "combine" which is a bit absurd, considering they ALSO compute a 3% maximum trailing draw, BUT they want $15k profit, or a net 10% gain on equity to pass the thing, lol.

Simple math reveals their daily draw is 1.66% on the smallest trial account and 2% on all others. The trail stop is 5% on the smallest account, and 3% on the largest (TST has 10% on the smallest and 3% on the largest).

The common feature is the representation of equity (or simulated funds). $10,000 per lot traded seems to be the standard.
 
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If he's moderating a chat room then he cannot show a real time LIVE DOM as it would violate CFTC rules. The trades must be simulated.

This is offtopic for this thread, so I don't want to dwell on it much, but he used to do it. Quote from Emmett's original review:

"So, does Jason really trade? Yes. He clearly displays his trading DOM and his resting orders are there for everyone to witness."

This was back in 2014. Last year he also showed a real 15K account for a few months. So the OTG in 2 years went from $300/month real account to $500/month sim account. :)

So just to be clear, I am not criticizing him for using a sim, I am bothered by him driving newbies to the Combine "meat grinder". (his words)

--------------------------------------------------

Now the real question is this: Why would TST be happy with "newbie, know nothing traders" whom Jason had to push through, passing the Combine and possibly getting backed with real money? The obvious answer is that nobody would want such traders unless they are after the combine fees only...

Jason mentioned 10 traders who he helped through the Combine. Now we can debate what actually this help meant (copying trades or actual mentoring and doing it on their own), but the point here is that I want to know how many are actually getting a paycheck from TST, thus profitable with a live account. Now that would be a really good advertisement for Jason and his method, but of course we won't hear that stat...

So my main criticism of Jason is that he is using the Combine as his measuring standard and PR material, when we already know that passing the Combine is just the first step and largely irrelevant for you becoming a profitable long time TST backed trader.
 
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@ScalperJoe

I know the comments are not yours, but anyone that lets themselves get down $100K has serious issues with their trading. If you are down even $10k in the futures market i would stop immediately and re-evaluate what the hell is going on. Unless you are trading HUGE size it should never get that bad.

what nonsense.
 
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