Topsteptrader

[ScalperJoe]

That is comparing them, Joe.

You've just compared them, in that very sentence. You even used the term "vs". If that isn't a term of direct comparison, what is it?

MES emerges very badly from that most important comparison, in my opinion.





As you've just mentioned yourself, there's very little information yet about MES's scheme, and apparently none at all about whether people actually get paid the (poor-by-comparison) 50% of what they "earn". What we do know, though, is that it's being run by someone who has repeatedly been dishonest and deceptive.

So (as I quickly acknowledged, above) I should perhaps have made my "red flag comments", strictly speaking, about the owner, rather than about the scheme itself. My own perspective is that that's more than enough to put me off, anyway.

We're playing with semantics here. I referenced BOTH firms in the same sentence as a matter of clarification regarding transparency. It's a fact that MES Capital has limited information, and TST has ample information. (In other words, comparing them in that method is immaterial, since it's obvious, hence the wording of my phrase "one cannot compare MES with TST"). Perhaps it was poorly worded, just as you have acknowledged that there's a difference between accusing the firm of being a scam as more of a "red flag comments" rather than a blanket accusation of the "scheme itself."

The original response was regarding the claim by the OP that MES Capital wasn't going to charge for a trial, and therefore he risked "NOTHING" (except of course the time required to complete the trial).

 

[ScalperJoe]

I seem to have stirred up an itsy bitsy hornets nest. Debating a controversial subjects never hurt anyone.
The proof for or against MES will be revealed IF I get a trial with them & IF I get to be a funded trader with them. This will take a month or three so patience is required. IF I get a trial with them I will keep y'all informed as to my progress (or otherwise) Meanwhile, in my book it's "innocent until proven guilty"
I may be new here, but I am certainly not new to trading, trade management, mentoring etc etc.

It actually reminds me of Uber being accused of trying to disrupt the algos of Lyft by ordering and subsequently canceling thousands of rides.

There's nothing wrong with competitors using aggressive marketing to try and gain market share. Of course, it becomes suspect when the marketing utilizes methods that are construed as fraudulent in the legal sense (which my guess is probably not the case with MES).

Anyways, best of luck with the trial.

 

[ScalperJoe]

The market literally sends many insane as accounts are busted and egos crushed. GL

I'm not sure about going "insane" but I definitely agree with the second part, lol! The key is to learn from past mistakes and keep moving forward.

Here's part of the FAQ's from another competitor, SaviusLLC. I think it speaks for itself.

12. Do most traders who take the Challenge pass it and move to the next level?

"NO. Trading is a very challenging venture and the % of candidates who successfully pass, even on a Simulator, is generally low. The challenge was devised to purposely select the best. Only those able to acquire the proper mindset and master their strategy have a chance of making it and thrive. Other factors will also determine your chances of success (ex. market selection, volatility during the simulated trading sessions, etc.)."

 

[volente_00]

Sorry, but the logic goes the other way. They are worried, thus they don't have an AMA. (Unlike on BMT where the owner protects them from too much criticism) I agree, we would welcome a Q&A season, but the last time they had it, we just got pre-warmed PR answers.

What you might have wanted to say was: I guess they are not worried about negative publicity, because they are STILL a vendor here on ET, after all these years of criticism. They are probably like ZaZa Gabor, any publicity is good, specially if it brings in more combiners. I am sure they did the math and being a vendor here pays off for them...

30k here 30k at bmt, assuming 10% advertising budget gives them a minimum revenue of 600k, 6 on payroll for 300k still nets 240k for playing at the penthouse. Not a bad gig for selling risk free hope to dreamers.

 

[volente_00]

There probably aren't.

As ever, you've totally missed the point on this subject: TST only offer a one-year deal. Why would anyone stay with them for longer than that, giving up 20% of their profits, if they're trading regularly and earning decent money? It's an offer for people with trading skills and without capital. What's hard for you to understand about this?

By the time "the customers had yachts", they wouldn't need TST any more, would they?

But if you want the evidence of where those one-year customers are, the answer is at futures.io, on Youtube, on TST's videos, on their blog and on their "squawk radio". I've told you this about ten times before, but you just keep on asking your same totally-missing-the-point question every time, as if trying to pretend that it hasn't already been answered.

I know that you're not a stupid guy, Pekelo, but you really do seem absolutely determined to miss the point over this issue, no matter how many people explain it to you, and no matter how clearly and repeatedly. Still, that's one definition of "prejudice", I suppose ...

If the numbers where there they would post them. When you sign up you give them permission to use your trading performance for advertising. The only time they revealed numbers years ago, no one was making over 30k.

 

[Loooppy99]

I'm not sure about going "insane" but I definitely agree with the second part, lol! The key is to learn from past mistakes and keep moving forward.

Here's part of the FAQ's from another competitor, SaviusLLC. I think it speaks for itself.

12. Do most traders who take the Challenge pass it and move to the next level?

"NO. Trading is a very challenging venture and the % of candidates who successfully pass, even on a Simulator, is generally low. The challenge was devised to purposely select the best. Only those able to acquire the proper mindset and master their strategy have a chance of making it and thrive. Other factors will also determine your chances of success (ex. market selection, volatility during the simulated trading sessions, etc.)."

SaviusLLC..... How is it I have never heard of them before.??
IF one is good enough, no reason why one cannot be with all three. I will check them out too. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[ScalperJoe]

SaviusLLC..... How is it I have never heard of them before.??
IF one is good enough, no reason why one cannot be with all three. I will check them out too. Thanks for the heads up.

Yes, they were mentioned here awhile back, I believe it was Pekelo who found the link.

Looking at the Savius model, it seems they will refund the entrance fee of $198 if a trader passes their challenge, whereas Top Step stopped providing refunds. However, Savius traders must only trade 10 days, whereas Top Step will allow for a continuous challenge. Savius does not cite any information regarding the parameters of the live account, whereas Top Step has the details clearly spelled out in the FAQ's, etc.

Personally, I think Top Step has built up its infrastructure, and perhaps qualifies as the firm with "first mover's advantage" in the futures prop space. However, that will also bring in new competitors who will try to mimic the model, which is a good thing for those looking for viable alternatives to opening their own retail accounts.

Traders are better served when more firms compete for their business. But don't be surprised if you read a post regarding Savius that says "it's a scam" lol!

 

[Xela]

But don't be surprised if you read a post regarding Savius that says "it's a scam" lol!

Lol - more "historically" than "immediately", I think: there's a long thread about them in the Trade2Win trading forum. I haven't read most of it but from the little I saw, that certainly seemed to be the consensus of opinion among their members.

 

[ScalperJoe]

If the numbers where there they would post them. When you sign up you give them permission to use your trading performance for advertising. The only time they revealed numbers years ago, no one was making over 30k.

You want numbers? If a trader is fortunate to get through the first 10 days of the live account stage and has a small balance, then the chance of longevity is slim to none.

The combine will allow a trader to test/generate their "edge" and build a more disciplined track record, and for a lower cost than "blowing up" a few thousand bucks in an AMP account. However, without EQUITY to finance that "edge" the rate of failure is going to be extremely high, whether it's with TST, a competing prop firm, or even a retail AMP account.

 

[Loooppy99]

Yes, they were mentioned here awhile back, I believe it was Pekelo who found the link.

Looking at the Savius model, it seems they will refund the entrance fee of $198 if a trader passes their challenge, whereas Top Step stopped providing refunds. However, Savius traders must only trade 10 days, whereas Top Step will allow for a continuous challenge. Savius does not cite any information regarding the parameters of the live account, whereas Top Step has the details clearly spelled out in the FAQ's, etc.

Personally, I think Top Step has built up its infrastructure, and perhaps qualifies as the firm with "first mover's advantage" in the futures prop space. However, that will also bring in new competitors who will try to mimic the model, which is a good thing for those looking for viable alternatives to opening their own retail accounts.

Traders are better served when more firms compete for their business. But don't be surprised if you read a post regarding Savius that says "it's a scam" lol!

WOW. You got a quick bite there.Lol.