Topsteptrader

[endicottsteel]

All the reset does it make it less realistic and isn't that your argument that the combine holds you accountable instead of just free sim trading on your own ?

It's not unrealistic at all it's natural to need to try something again and again when learning. As I said in a previous post the own live account equivalent of a reset is that the trader has blown a large whole in his account and then has to save to reload it or worse borrow money. The sim account with TST or on your own should be used to become competent before a combine is even considered. Of course variance can cause even a proficient trader to fail a combine and in this case they can use a reset. I am fully aware that the reset function will be abused by learning traders as they don't follow rules and don't utilise the safe demo environment even when they have no edge+discipline. What is the better proposition though a gambling newbie abusing the reset function of blowing holes in their own live account. I know which one I think is better.

Also it makes the trader more inclined to fail since the rules are not the same in ftp or live account so why build up their confidence with this option only to kick them in the face on the next levels ?

No it doesn't. The combine to FTP to live progression is designed so the rules are increased at each stage which reflects the reality of what you need to do to build a small live account to a large one. You are going down the route of 'TST are trying to make me fail' and that's incorrect they are trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

One of my biggest complaints is there is no consistency with tst. The rules change constantly so how do you adjust when you never know what they will be next week or month ?

It's a new business model and a relatively new business. Therefore they have changed rules and in recent times relaxed them. This may also be due to the risk appetite of the backer changing with him/her seeing the variance in ROI they are getting. You make it sound like they are changing rules every week when they are not, the vast majority of changes make it easier. Once a trader is in the live account with a decent amount of money the rules are very straightforward and relaxed imo.

 

[endicottsteel]

Your math is wrong. Since you are a non employee of TST, you will also owe an additional 15.3% self employment tax since you are issued a 1099

omg now we are onto the tax angles, more excuses. The majority of traders will never pay a dime in taxes ever as they wont make a profit ever. The idea of TST is to start your trading career. Once you hit your number $100k, $250k or whatever it is you are obviously going to structure your trading for tax efficiency, nobody would argue against you doing that including TST. If a trader went on to make $100k with TST and they then said to TST, it's been great but now I feel I am ready to go on my own OR I want to renegotiate the terms for other products/other strategies this is not going to be a problem.

 

[Xela]

The rules change constantly

So do the markets, so that's realistic: one has to adapt - that's what intelligence is.

how do you adjust when you never know what they will be next week or month ?

They're very clearly stated before you start, for each participant. On the website, by email and the basic ones even printed across the top of Combine reports. How clear can it be made?

If I were investing my money in other people's trading skills, after only the briefest period of "checking them out", I'd want only people who can learn to stick to clearly stated rules.

Wouldn't you?

To some people, changes of the rules (mostly relaxations, by the way) are indicative of TST's sensitivity to feedback and willingness to be flexible and responsive, even while risking capital in a still-evolving business model. Users of their service provide observations and feedback, and TST is notably willing to take them on board and make adjustments accordingly.

To other people, that's (apparently, to my surprise) a sign that "the rules keep changing all the time" and that can even become a criticism!

It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?

 

[Topstep]

All,

We appreciate challenging questions and good conversation around innovative new companies that pop up in an industry that we all are part of and care about. That said, we at TopstepTrader would like focus to shift to (your) personal growth and becoming a better trader.

We want to thank the folks out there that understand and support TopstepTrader and our vision. We also want to stress that we may not be a fit for all.

Lastly, we believe that anyone, anywhere, should have the opportunity to safely develop their skills and earn trading capital. TopstepTrader was built around this belief and supports this concept.

Thank you,

TopstepTrader

p.s. Solid trading thus far, endicottsteel!

 

[volente_00]

So do the markets, so that's realistic: one has to adapt - that's what intelligence is.





They're very clearly stated before you start, for each participant. On the website, by email and the basic ones even printed across the top of Combine reports. How clear can it be made?

If I were investing my money in other people's trading skills, after only the briefest period of "checking them out", I'd want only people who can learn to stick to clearly stated rules.

Wouldn't you?

To some people, changes of the rules (mostly relaxations, by the way) are indicative of TST's sensitivity to feedback and willingness to be flexible and responsive, even while risking capital in a still-evolving business model. Users of their service provide observations and feedback, and TST is notably willing to take them on board and make adjustments accordingly.

To other people, that's (apparently, to my surprise) a sign that "the rules keep changing all the time" and that can even become a criticism!

It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?

Relaxations ?

Lets look at the facts

The combine entry has went from $0 to $60 to $375 since 2010

A second forced combine aka Ltp has been introduced

Trailing account value has been introduced

Trading 1 minute after Eco/news has been introduced

Combine refunds have went from 100% if you pass to 0


Look at any other prop firm that existed, bright, worldco, echo, jump,tuco
The numbers that came out of these shops are out there if you look for them.

Where are the profitable live traders from tst?


6 years and no one has ever claimed to be a consistent live profitable trader ?


Why is this ?

 

[Xela]

Lets look at the facts

You haven't looked at the facts. You've cherry picked a few highly selected ones that you think substantiate your point of view. And actually they don't even do that, partly because you've got some of them wrong.

A second forced combine aka Ltp has been introduced

Wrong. The Funded Trader Preparation hasn't been "introduced". It's just being used all the time instead of about 95% of the time.

Combine refunds have went from 100% if you pass to 0

Looks like you haven't been reading Endicott's posts, if that's your impression. (He's just been told, having passed his Combine, that if he ever needs to take a Combine again, it will cost him $1 for a month.)

Where are the profitable live traders from tst?

On Youtube, on TST's blog and in other forums where there are conversations about TST that aren't full of ill-informed, prejudiced crap and nonsense.

6 years and no one has ever claimed to be a consistent live profitable trader ?

Bullshit.

 

[endicottsteel]

Looks like you haven't been reading Endicott's posts, if that's your impression. (He's just been told, having passed his Combine, that if he ever needs to take a Combine again, it will cost him $1 for a month.)

Whilst I don't share Volente's negative attitude I think he is correct that previously the combine fee was fully refundable IF you did not break any of the rules even if the profit target was not met and you finished positive. This has now been changed. I have to admit it was a sweeter deal before as a competent trader could get a refund as long as they finished 10 days positive.

When all is said and done if a trader makes it to a live account on the $150k combine then TST is on the hook for a potential $4500 max drawdown loss so I have no problem paying an 'entry fee'.

New traders should be using the free sim account and when confident they can pass the combine, they should sign up for a $99 combine. If they fail the combine twice or three times they should go back to the sim.

 

[Xela]

Whilst I don't share Volente's negative attitude I think he is correct that previously the combine fee was fully refundable IF you did not break any of the rules even if the profit target was not met and you finished positive. This has now been changed.

That was feature of the 10-day Combines, which no longer exist. It never applied to continuous Combines, which is all there are, now. So yes ... it's been changed in the sense that the Combines to which it applied no longer exist.

What was offered was either a refund or a free Combine. That "free Combine", in continuous Combines, is now the "$1 for the month" Combine to which you referred, I think?

 

[endicottsteel]

That was feature of the 10-day Combines, which no longer exist. It never applied to continuous Combines, which is all there are, now. So yes ... it's been changed in the sense that the Combines to which it applied no longer exist.

What was offered was either a refund or a free Combine. That "free Combine", in continuous Combines, is now the "$1 for the month" Combine to which you referred, I think?

I bow down to your superior TST knowledge. Yep the $1 for the month re load looks like how they reworked it. From outset I figured i would allow myself 2 resets, so if I do fall down at any point I will use this $1 combine to take another shot. Hopefully I wont need them, my FTP trading this morning has been solid but anything can happen. GL.

 

[endicottsteel]

Day 1 of FTP complete. finished on -$29.78. couldn't get the expansion I was looking for, was up $1k at one point but gave it back. Some days it isn't there so will see what tomorrow brings.