Topsteptrader

[endicottsteel]

After visiting TST's website I had to rewrite my response.



*[did you mean Live trading?]

You are mixing up Live trading and Combines. In the Combines there are no differences, one is the exact 1.5 multiple of the other in every category.

Now in Live trading it is possible that the guy finishing the 150K Combine gets the 4.5K max. DD, compared to the 3K max. DD of the 100K Combiner. Doesn't really makes sense since both start out with 3 contracts max. and the former trader is supposed to be better, so why would they allow him to lose more?

But that is what their website says, so I guess, the extra 50 bucks in fees buys more max. DD in the Live account. Also there is a slight difference in the scaling up plan.

Yes as per my post I am talking about the funded trader (that you term live trading) difference between the $100k and $150k combines. The former has 3k draw max, the latter $4.5k. Thats the difference. TST could potentially lose $4.5k if you blow out on funded $150k combine compared to $3k loss to someone blowing out on funded $100k combine. The combine cost is higher as the risk to them is higher.

 

[Xela]

You said there is no difference between the 100k and 150k combines. My understanding is that the difference is in the max drawdown.

This is correct.

I do understand that from day 10 of funded your account cannot go below the initial starting balance - scalperjoe keeps banging on about this.

Also correct - and meaning the tenth day on which you choose to trade, of course, not literally "two weeks".

There are reports of people requesting and being granted increased position-sizing before making $10k, actually ... and those increases in permitted position-sizes are of course accompanied by increased loss and drawdown limits, too.

 

[ScalperJoe]

Hey guys. There is a lot of negativity towards Topstep on this thread. What exactly is the core reason behind this negativity?

What is the core reason? Is it that people don't believe it is possible to take a decent cheque from topstep? Is it that people think it's just as easy and preferable to open a $5k futures account and earn money that way.

I think it's mostly objective observation than "negativity" towards TST. Your points are valid. TST is definitely worthy of consideration as a learning/training tool. It's been discussed extensively that opportunity cost is the correct way to measure if it's worth trying a TST combine(s) vs. opening a retail account for new futures traders. In fact, you can test your skills with limited risk via the combine vs. opening a few thousand dollar AMP account with the risk of "blowing up" rather quickly trading a few lots.

I actually think people DO believe it's possible to take a decent check from TST, however they may not recognize that the rules in the live account only permit ten days of building equity before the "funding" switches to the maintenance margin only.

The issue is the over emphasizing of "funded traders" (which only references those who pass a simulator). If TST wants to boost its value proposition, then it could easily reveal the correlation of equity balance on day 11 in the live account to the respective combine passed. There is no need to reveal the screen names of the traders, just the correlation. THAT would allow for an objective observation, since you would then fully realize that ONLY the larger combines have merit for taking "decent checks" whereas the others are simply training exercises.

 

[ScalperJoe]

For me personally I will likely be trading 3 contracts on a 30 tick stop. $900 risk per trade on oil. The 100k combine would allow me 3 trades at this risk before max drawdown, the 150k combine would allow me 5 trades at this risk before drawdown. So the difference for me is that you are allowed more drawdown.

I do understand that from day 10 of funded your account cannot go below the initial starting balance - scalperjoe keeps banging on about this.

Remember, the way you trade the combine should match the way you would trade in the live account, since it's the LIVE account that matters, not the combine! Since TST has different rules in the combine vs. FTP vs. live, the only relevant rules are the live account rules, period.

So let's take your strategy and extrapolate it to the live account. If you pass the combine and FTP, now you have a weekly loss limit (which you didn't have in the combine). Therefore, your daily draw is now reduced to $600 ($3,000 divided by five days). This means you would need to reduce to 2 lots with a 30 tick draw to keep within the live account rules. If you wanted to trade 3 lots, then you'd have to reduce your draw to 20 ticks, which changes your strategy.

To determine your expected equity value, just take your average daily P&L of the combine and multiply it by 10 (of course, assuming you are using the SAME parameters as if it was already a live account). The combines are all continuous, so it doesn't matter how many days you take to reach the profit target, but it does matter in the live account, since you only have 10 days to work with TST's max draw allowance.

As long as you bank big winning days within the first 10 days of the live account (doesn't have to be continuous days), you will have enough equity on day 11, even if you take $600 stops on the losing days.

Yes, the initial balance cannot go below the "zero" starting balance, however it's the EQUITY balance on day 11 that is the most relevant number, as that will allow for an accurate comparison with a retail account.

 

[endicottsteel]

Remember, the way you trade the combine should match the way you would trade in the live account, since it's the LIVE account that matters, not the combine! Since TST has different rules in the combine vs. FTP vs. live, the only relevant rules are the live account rules, period.

So let's take your strategy and extrapolate it to the live account. If you pass the combine and FTP, now you have a weekly loss limit (which you didn't have in the combine). Therefore, your daily draw is now reduced to $600 ($3,000 divided by five days). This means you would need to reduce to 2 lots with a 30 tick draw to keep within the live account rules. If you wanted to trade 3 lots, then you'd have to reduce your draw to 20 ticks, which changes your strategy.

To determine your expected equity value, just take your average daily P&L of the combine and multiply it by 10 (of course, assuming you are using the SAME parameters as if it was already a live account). The combines are all continuous, so it doesn't matter how many days you take to reach the profit target, but it does matter in the live account, since you only have 10 days to work with TST's max draw allowance.

As long as you bank big winning days within the first 10 days of the live account (doesn't have to be continuous days), you will have enough equity on day 11, even if you take $600 stops on the losing days.

Yes, the initial balance cannot go below the "zero" starting balance, however it's the EQUITY balance on day 11 that is the most relevant number, as that will allow for an accurate comparison with a retail account.

I agree that the only relevant rules are for funded or live account. I will absolutely not be changing my strategy in the live account. 3 lots 30 tick stop $900 risk per trade. If I lose 3 days in a row I will simply not trade until the following week. I will not be paying attention to any average daily pnl from combine as to me this is irrelevant. The combine will be passed by hitting 1 or 2 large winners and several small losers, scratches. As soon as the target is done I will only be hitting tiny trades to bat out the required 10 days hence the average daily pnl in is meaningless to me. In the live account things change I will be looking to trade the 1st 10 days where I believe a trend day is more likely.

 

[endicottsteel]

This is correct.





Also correct - and meaning the tenth day on which you choose to trade, of course, not literally "two weeks".

There are reports of people requesting and being granted increased position-sizing before making $10k, actually ... and those increases in permitted position-sizes are of course accompanied by increased loss and drawdown limits, too.

Agree xela. During the combine and ftp I will likely trade every day just because I want a result after 10 calendar working days. In the live account I will be more selective as the 10 days are more critical. So I will probably avoid slow mondays and look to trade days where I think a trend day could be setting up. For example if monday and tuesday are relatively small ranges compared to average I will likely be trading the Wednesday looking for expansion.

 

[Xela]

If you pass the combine and FTP, now you have a weekly loss limit (which you didn't have in the combine).

Only for the first ten days.

Therefore, your daily draw is now reduced to $600 ($3,000 divided by five days). This means you would need to reduce to 2 lots with a 30 tick draw to keep within the live account rules. If you wanted to trade 3 lots, then you'd have to reduce your draw to 20 ticks, which changes your strategy.

Only for the first ten days.

 

[dartmus]

Remember, the way you trade the combine should match the way you would trade in the live account, since it's the LIVE account that matters, not the combine!

That's the way it should be but it's an unrealistic expectation.

 

[endicottsteel]

i am going to sign up tonight and hopefully get it on for tomorrow. I will likely take one small trade tomorrow as Monday is not optimal for taking big winners.

Here is how I am going to play the position sizing.

Combine

$150k combine
5 lots CL 30 ticks stop = $1500 risk per trade
$9000 target so need 180 ticks total @ $10 per tick
3 full stop outs and I will hit the $4500 drawdown limit and fail.
I will allow myself a max of 2 resets. Will likely focus on CL oil. however I will hit small winners in ES spoos, 6E euro , 6B cable just so I have these markets available in FTP. I am planning to hit the target ahead of the minimum 10 days and if I achieve this I will just bat out the remaining days to satisfy the min 10 days criteria.

FTP

3 lot CL 30 ticks stop - $900 risk per trade
$3000 target so need 100 ticks @ $10 per tick
5 full stop outs and I will hit the $4500 drawdown limit and be sent back to combine
Again will focus on oil however will hit small winners in ES, 6E, 6B to maintain limits in these produces for funded. If I hit the target early I will just bat out the remaining days to satisfy the 1 day limit.

Live/funded

Days 1-10
3 lot CL 30 tick stop - $900 risk per trade
5 full stop outs and I will hit $4500 drawdown limit and be sent back to combine.
My personal target will be 200 ticks = $6000 for days 1 to 10 of funded

Days 11+
position sizing will be reviewed according to account balance achieved by end of day 10.

note the minimum time to get a live funded account is 5 weeks. 2 weeks min for combine, 2 weeks min FTP then 1 week to get paperwork and live account opened.

 

[Xela]

i am going to sign up tonight and hopefully get it on for tomorrow.

Wishing you very well with this (though my own guess is that it may take them a day or two longer than that to get you started?).

Bold attempt - personally I'd trade no more than 3 lots on the $150k Combine. Call me conservative, but I've lost count of the number of good traders with profitable methods based on a real edge I've seen get into trouble in Combines through trading more lots than I'd be comfortable with, myself. (Excuse my asking, but if you're planning to hit the target in 6 days trading 5 lots, wouldn't it be safer regarding loss-limits and drawdowns to allow for actively trading 10 days at 3 lots instead? It comes to the same result?).

Looking forward to seeing the daily reports!