Topsteptrader

[ScalperJoe]

The index gapping in RTH such a huge gap that you can not get out of the trade before whipping your account out has such a small chance (exactly 0.000367%) and only happens if you over leveraged yourself, so unless you are completely careless and you go all in all the time, you shouldn't worry about it.

Since TST requires a stop order with every trade, a "black swan" is probably a lowest level of concern for traders who have funded accounts. Using the AUTO OCO feature is a means of protection for a black swan, even with slippage, at least you'll get out with a specified loss.

When the ES opened "limit down" a few months back, it surely wiped out a lot of margin players, however those are overnight traders holding the prior session, and did not impact the day traders.

 

[WMorin]

How many contracts were you trading per order to generate the $800/day average in the combine that got you the funded account?

Your $800 daily average over the 10 days is impressive, however the live account won't allow more than 3 lots on the 100k to start, so to make a realistic comparison of the equity you'd have on day 11 (if it was a live account), you have to factor in the scale up rules.

This is one of the biggest discrepancies with TST. The combine rules do NOT match the live funded rules.

Very true. You are only allowed up to 3 lots to start in your funded account after a $100k combine. I traded an average of 3 or 4 lots during the combine.

 

[VPhantom]

This is one of the biggest discrepancies with TST. The combine rules do NOT match the live funded rules.

That's what bugged me a bit too. The system I fined-tuned for working at TST is for the $150K combine and scales anywhere between 2 and 12 lots depending on stop size and becomes quite skewed in the initial live level of I think 3, the same kind of level I'd use on my personal account.

But I can't hold that scaling against TST: it's their way of limiting their risk to, hopefully, whatever balance you accumulate there. It's also why people without black swan risk aversion, the need to trade "1099" (advantageous in Canada), nor the need for the imposed risk management are better off at say AMP on their own. Also note the wording on their scaling page, and their attitude in most interviews: they are more likely to fund $30K combine participants and state that getting a bigger size live (even than the eventual 20 at the $150K level) is more or less just an e-mail or phone call away once you reached the top of your level's scaling plan. Now with their continuous-only pricing, this pretty much guarantees that I'll go for the $30K if/when I dive in, and see if they live up to that claim.

Since TST requires a stop order with every trade, a "black swan" is probably a lowest level of concern for traders who have funded accounts.

You need to read up on what a stop order and a black swan event actually mean. A stop is a market order that gets triggered by reaching a certain price, nothing more. If there's no market under you, you get a horrible fill. (See EUR/CHF earlier this year, where lots of uninformed traders thought they had "guaranteed stops" and didn't. Stops at 1.2000 filled at 1.0300 for a cool 1700-pip "slippage", etc.)

TST is awesome black swan protection not because of mandatory stops (I can do that on my own account) but because you don't owe them a penny if the whole house burns down.

 

[Pekelo]

Q: Why do the traders need to be profitable in every trading instrument as long as they are hitting the profit target?

A: (Hoag)
"Some things have been decided internally that should address this after the first of the new year."

Looks like they finally are going to change this stupid rule too. Good riddance and we should get some kind of advisory fee here, because most of the changes came after we criticized it here first.

 

[Xela]

we should get some kind of advisory fee here

Well, we do, in a sense: we don't have to pay anything to be members here, because the forum's maintenance-costs are covered by its sponsors (such as TST).

 

[VPhantom]

Looks like they finally are going to change this stupid rule too.

Question is: and what else? Already several big changes in 2015 so far. I guess we'll know in 2 weeks.

 

[Pekelo]

Hey guess what we got for Christmas? Honesty. Well, not from TST, but from one of their competitors called Savius. The boss was also a little drank when he wrote this, so that might explain the unusual candor:

"I agree with you: a consistently profitable trader will not be hooked up from what I have to offer .
But he/she is not our target in first place , they do not need my company. As you say there are better options for those who have skills and capital and only need to leverage up, right? .
Our target is the guy who has potential but can't afford to put down the 5k at risk to see if he can live out of it. It may sound weird but for a lot of people out there are fighting for little amount of money. Some of our traders asked us to be paid even 40/50 USD profit share at the end of the month.
There is also another category of candidates, those who have money, but with their account they keep doing the same mistakes again and again: build up the equity and then burn the account in a session. I think we are a good fit for them too: they need a structure.
Same for those who have capital, potential , but little experience..."

Well, it was refreshing to hear this from the other side, although we knew this all along. But here is an intriguing idea, fueled by alcohol:

"Suppose that I propose to those who pass the Challenge to trade on the Sim for a month, and pay them a fixed amount to do it, independently from their results ( positive or negative a the end of the month).
If at the end of this month they are positive, they'll keep going on the sim, but I'll pay them 20%(?) of the eventual profit produced.
How do I make money? I'll build an algo to apply filters to those signals and replicate the good ones on a real account.
I can then select the really good ones and base myself on a more reliable real time direct observation and I could offer them a bigger account with more leverage and risk tolerance."

Interesting idea, up for discussion...

 

[smallStops]

Thank you Pekelo for quoting this buz owner.
Honesty : can you ask him if he has he done the dhamma.org (???? )

As long as they explain clearly to the trader that their trades are being replicated, and that
they agree - I doubt any would.
I guess it is easier (?) to try to steal from good traders behind their back, than to learn to trade oneself, thought - now I am realising - trading can be easy to master when one puts a good emphasis on the psychology/spirituality from the start ( including psychological aspects that get people to trade real money without a good approach).

 

[ScalperJoe]

You need to read up on what a stop order and a black swan event actually mean. A stop is a market order that gets triggered by reaching a certain price, nothing more. If there's no market under you, you get a horrible fill. (See EUR/CHF earlier this year, where lots of uninformed traders thought they had "guaranteed stops" and didn't. Stops at 1.2000 filled at 1.0300 for a cool 1700-pip "slippage", etc.)

TST is awesome black swan protection not because of mandatory stops (I can do that on my own account) but because you don't owe them a penny if the whole house burns down.

The majority of traders on TST are either trading crude or ES in small lots and closing out the position before the session. I already gave the example of the ES opening "limit down" in August which probably triggered a lot of stops on the overnights.

However, for currency pairs, it's another ball game, so I get your point.

 

[ScalperJoe]

Also note the wording on their scaling page, and their attitude in most interviews: they are more likely to fund $30K combine participants and state that getting a bigger size live (even than the eventual 20 at the $150K level) is more or less just an e-mail or phone call away once you reached the top of your level's scaling plan.

In theory it is certainly possible to use the scale up rules to take the lot size up to 20 from a 30k live account. However, the 30k only allows for a maximum of 7 lots at the $7,001-$10,000 profit level, not 20 as with the 150k.

I'm not sure what profit level you'd need to reach to get 20 lots with that e-mail or phone call on that 30k live account.

If you're looking to eventually trade 20 lots, the scale up plan only favors the larger accounts, given the 10 day equity rule.