Topsteptrader

[volente_00]

Oh boy you have reverted to 'lets change the rules' mode. Giant face palm. Much better to play to the rules and focus on what you can control.

Except the main issue I have is there is zero consistency in them and they have changed constantly over 5 years. Hell the original combine was free in the beginning, which I suspect was just a marketing ploy to attract more desperate souls. There was no live trader prep aka second combine with different rules.
You know why ltp exist now ?
It's simple math. If you have a 5% chance of passing the combine, then what is your chance of passing ltp (second combine) excluding the fact that that the rules are different?
The answer is simple probability and is also the reason that this will always remain a desperate pikers last chance instead of a real trading opportunity where you will make enough to justify your time. It never seems to amaze me how desperate people can be so oblivious to the facts but that's just the natural of the game set up here. It just seems chickenshit to prey off of desperate people but to each his own.

 

[londonkid]

Except the main issue I have is there is zero consistency in them and they have changed constantly over 5 years. Hell the original combine was free in the beginning, which I suspect was just a marketing ploy to attract more desperate souls. There was no live trader prep aka second combine with different rules.
You know why ltp exist now ?
It's simple math. If you have a 5% chance of passing the combine, then what is your chance of passing ltp (second combine) excluding the fact that that the rules are different?
The answer is simple probability and is also the reason that this will always remain a desperate pikers last chance instead of a real trading opportunity where you will make enough to justify your time. It never seems to amaze me how desperate people can be so oblivious to the facts but that's just the natural of the game set up here. It just seems chickenshit to prey off of desperate people but to each his own.

It is simple maths if you passed the combine by luck or variance, but not if you can actually trade. 200+ traders funded year to date, those are the facts. Will all of them be trading for TST in 1 years time? absolutely NOT.

You get the same dynamic that repeats over and over again that I have seen in other prop firms. That dynamic is 90%+ people are not suited to trading as they lack one or all of intelligence/discipline/negative character traits and cannot overcome these, these people go rogue and blame everything and anyone but themselves. Of the people who stay around in prop firms you have the occasionally successful who come and go, then you get the solid people who have been around for years that are practically part of the furniture. People in the latter group are rare.

This dynamic repeats and repeats and repeats. It's not going to stop.

One thing for sure I have never met a successful trader who is a constantly negative moaner. They are all positive people, who strive for improvements, they know themselves well and rarely blame others.

 

[Pekelo]

Joe, you don't have to be so verbose, you could have just said, you almost completely agree with my objective and expert analysis...

About the automatic close out of trades, at least their software should have a feature where you can set it up. The exact timing if TST does it is irrelevant, the point is that it is one thing less to pay attention for the trader (with their gazillion rules). If I understand correctly, they can throw a Live trader back to the Combine for breaking this rule. So let's say I made 100K (thus 20K for TST) during the year, but because I have a blackout or family emergency just before the close and I can't close out trades in time they would rather get ride of me, instead of trying to work with me?

But as I mentioned earlier, they could set up a fine system (if not closed out in a timely manner) that way they could make money and force being principled, but the trader wouldn't lose time. TIME IS MONEY!!

Oh yeah, I remembered another grievance:

7. TST wants the traders to sit there and monitor the trades all the time. If I am a swingtrader and I am planning to hold for 4-6 hours and the trade is already in the money and there is this thingy called stop loss order, what is the point??? Why they want me to sit by the monitor and do nothing for hours???
And here comes up the automatic close out again, if I correctly caught the trend in the morning, I should be able to get out of position by:
-stop loss
-limit order at my target
-end of day automatic close

So I can go and do whatever I want with my time, like posting on ET or feed the poor...

Have I mentioned TIME IS MONEY????

 

[londonkid]

Joe, you don't have to be so verbose, you could have just said, you almost completely agree with my objective and expert analysis...

About the automatic close out of trades, at least their software should have a feature where you can set it up. The exact timing if TST does it is irrelevant, the point is that it is one thing less to pay attention for the trader (with their gazillion rules). If I understand correctly, they can throw a Live trader back to the Combine for breaking this rule. So let's say I made 100K (thus 20K for TST) during the year, but because I have a blackout or family emergency just before the close and I can't close out trades in time they would rather get ride of me, instead of trying to work with me?

But as I mentioned earlier, they could set up a fine system (if not closed out in a timely manner) that way they could make money and force being principled, but the trader wouldn't lose time. TIME IS MONEY!!

Oh yeah, I remembered another grievance:

7. TST wants the traders to sit there and monitor the trades all the time. If I am a swingtrader and I am planning to hold for 4-6 hours and the trade is already in the money and there is this thingy called stop loss order, what is the point??? Why they want me to sit by the monitor and do nothing for hours???

Have I mentioned TIME IS MONEY????

Just another post FOS. You just don't get it do you. TST or any other prop firm don't want traders who cannot follow simple rules like be flat by 3.10pm Central. yes it could be automated but it is a test of discipline. The risk manager at the firm will just look at the the account (it's one account with many sub accounts) and see what risk is still on the books at 3.09pm Central. If not closed by 3.10pm they will just bang you out.

In your example of you making 100k (which is a joke by the way as the only way you could do this is several years working at your local burger place) TST treat each case of a funded trader breaking a rule at their discretion. If you were a solid trader with solid profits they are not going to let you go. If you mess them around and break several rules then obviously they will can you.

You comments about swing trading have to be a joke right. You can only day trade at TST. There literally is no hope for you.

here this might help: http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers/working_here.html

 

[ScalperJoe]

You comments about swing trading have to be a joke right. You can only day trade at TST. There literally is no hope for you.

here this might help: http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers/working_here.html

Read Pekelo's post again regarding "swing trading." If you follow Al Brooks, then you'd know that a "swing trade" is daytrader parlance for holding a position for several HOURS, not overnight. But I can see how the language was misinterpreted.

Here's the quote (emphasis in bold):

"If I am a swingtrader and I am planning to hold for 4-6 hours and the trade is already in the money and there is this thingy called stop loss order, what is the point??? Why they want me to sit by the monitor and do nothing for hours???"

Regarding the link for McDonald's, perhaps that is more suited for the piker accounts who think they are going to take $100 cushion and turn it into millions, lol!

Look, when are there SO MANY different rules, there's always going to be a variance of opinion on how to improve them, especially when the rules keep changing. The point is each rule change actually favors the trader, not against the trader, which speaks volumes regarding their actual intentions.

Of course there are going to be disagreements, and that is also apparent in Big Mike's forum where TST posts their responses. Some who actually take the time to review the ENTIRE program are becoming fully aware that each phase you cross makes it more and more difficult to get the live account. Countertrend made a brilliant comment earlier that with each phase, there is increased pressure, given the rules become more stringent. However, look at it in terms from the backer's perspective, and it's clearly designed to weed out all except the few exceptional traders.

BUT...even the "200 or so" will face the inevitable reality check once they start trading the LIVE account and realize that after day 11, you are NOT backed by any equity, only the maintenance margin. Therein lies the crux of the program. Indeed, TST is a "build up" of equity program, that is how it's designed. So the trader just has to develop their own game plan as to how they're going to build up that equity, and hope for the best.

 

[ScalperJoe]

It never seems to amaze me how desperate people can be so oblivious to the facts but that's just the natural of the game set up here. It just seems chickenshit to prey off of desperate people but to each his own.

If one thinks they're going to make money with a PIKER account, then I fully agree, it's desperation. Keep in mind, however, that newbie traders who aren't well versed in all of the nuances of the prop world will buy into the fantasy that you can take a small account and turn it into a large account, even when they're told the odds are extremely low.

I don't think anyone can deny that if you participate in a combine, or several combines, you will come out ahead as a trader, EVEN if you fail. Why? Because it's an exercise of INTROSPECTION, where the combine will allow you to identify your weaknesses and improve on them.

Several posts in Big Mike's forum claim that the combine has improved the performance of their own retail accounts.

At the END OF THE DAY, however, it's the accounts that have built up equity that will continue trading. And for that one eventually will have to pass the larger combine.

If I was a backer with TST and wanted to improve my inflows through backing profitable traders and keeping the 20% cut, then I would reduce the entrance fees and ONLY take live accounts who passed the 100k/150k combines, since those are the only accounts that have the higher odds of monetizing the scale up rules.

Don Bright once told me to "get a job" when I refused his terms and said I wanted to open an account with $5k. I was perplexed by why he wanted so much more in capital contribution vs. other firms. I actually thought he was an arrogant prick at the time. However, fast forward many years later, I now realize that he was right!

 

[ScalperJoe]

Speaking of Don Bright, I just read Baron's post. It's very unfortunate, Don Bright was always a straight shooter, and as Baron stated he was a pioneer in the prop industry.

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index.php?threads/r-i-p-don-bright.293892/

 

[volente_00]

It is simple maths if you passed the combine by luck or variance, but not if you can actually trade. 200+ traders funded year to date, those are the facts. Will all of them be trading for TST in 1 years time? absolutely NOT.

You get the same dynamic that repeats over and over again that I have seen in other prop firms. That dynamic is 90%+ people are not suited to trading as they lack one or all of intelligence/discipline/negative character traits and cannot overcome these, these people go rogue and blame everything and anyone but themselves. Of the people who stay around in prop firms you have the occasionally successful who come and go, then you get the solid people who have been around for years that are practically part of the furniture. People in the latter group are rare.

This dynamic repeats and repeats and repeats. It's not going to stop.

One thing for sure I have never met a successful trader who is a constantly negative moaner. They are all positive people, who strive for improvements, they know themselves well and rarely blame others.

It's simple probability.
If there is 5% chance you can pass the combine and 5% chance you can pass ltp then what is your probability of you passing both in a row ?
I'm as optimistic as they come but I'm also a realist. The reality is you have a higher chance of being a successful trader with your own small retail account then you will ever have at tst since that is what your end prize with them is minus the 20% handicap that you give away. I know you don't want to hear this but I'm not going to sugarcoat it, string you along, waste your time, and sell you some pie in the sky bullshit dream for $150. One day you will see the light and realize the truth.

 

[londonkid]

Therein lies the crux of the program. Indeed, TST is a "build up" of equity program, that is how it's designed. So the trader just has to develop their own game plan as to how they're going to build up that equity, and hope for the best.

dude honestly I bet you are the kind of guy who cannot make a decision about something trivial without drawing up a spreadsheet.

You call TST a 'build up' of equity program. Come on all trading is build up of equity. You are seriously over complicating things. You do realise this is a protection mechanism the mind throws up to avoid making decisions and moving forward. Ultimately it is fear of failure. Just sayin.

 

[londonkid]

It's simple probability.
If there is 5% chance you can pass the combine and 5% chance you can pass ltp then what is your probability of you passing both in a row ?
I'm as optimistic as they come but I'm also a realist. The reality is you have a higher chance of being a successful trader with your own small retail account then you will ever have at tst since that is what your end prize with them is minus the 20% handicap that you give away. I know you don't want to hear this but I'm not going to sugarcoat it, string you along, waste your time, and sell you some pie in the sky bullshit dream for $150. One day you will see the light and realize the truth.

Nah you are a doom monger. A signed up 90%+ member. Your argument amounts to most people are not successful with TST therefore dont use their service as its a scam. In nearly every competitive endeavour you have a minority of successful people and a majority of people who cant cut it. Thats just the way it is. A proportion of this majority go rogue and vent, blaming everyone but themselves. These people are better off finding an easier game to play.