Topsteptrader

[londonkid]

What is the service ?

The service is providing a trading environment with rules and accountability. This is coupled with the opportunity to trade a funded account with zero downside risk.

If one is gullible enough to pay to sim trade then I don't think in the long run one has the skill set to trade profitable long term regardless of where or who it is for.

You admitted in the past you wouldn't be able to pass a combine, taking a wild shot but I guess that is skewing your opinions here. It's a great deal if you actually can trade, you get your deposit back if you come out above scratch.

As soon as I realised you got your money back if you came out above scratch and were profitable 5 days out of 10 I signed up instantly, a total no brainer for me. I just continue building my personal account and trade TST account at the same time.

Promise me one thing kid, when you make six figures at TST, post the 1099 so I can eat crow and be happy you beat the odds.

Let's suppose I do post that 1099 in the future. Is it going to change your opinion? Or are you going to say one or more of the following:

• You got lucky
• You are an outlier
• Bet you can't do it again
• You photoshopped it

Let's not kid ourselves it's gunna change anything.

GL.

 

[londonkid]

I was the one who asked him a few years ago and he said none had made more than 30k back then. He also promised to post the year end trading results and then welched when the time came. My problem is don't preach straight forward and transparent but act the opposite. Throws up major flags to me and is not an entity I would feel comfortable doing business with.

It is hardly a surprise that Michael is not responding here. Why would he bother engaging with the scores of naysayers of varying intelligence. Let's be realistic here, is he going to respond to someone who is constantly badmouthing into his company or just ignore them and carry on his business. 150+ funded trader year to date. I dont understand why you are saying you are not comfortable doing business with them? You said in the past that you would not be able to pass a combine so clearly it's not an option for you to do business with them.

I thought they will let you scale up even if you passed a lower combine as long as you as leave enough profits in the account to cover the risk ? Seems counterproductive to make someone trade so conservative instead of letting them run with what works best for them.

The TST website states you can request more buying power when you have $10k cushion. So if you want to trade more than 20 lots on the $150k combine account then this is possible. There is nothing there saying you cannot request more buying power for any of the other combines. So it's very much down the individual whether they want to take a larger combine and trade more contracts from outset or go for a smaller one and start from there.

And why do you remain handcuffed by so many rules even though you have built up a cushion that covers your risk to them ?

Actually when you are in day 11+ of funded and have a cushion the rules are very few and that was one of the attractions for me. The rules at this stage boil down to:

• always have a stop in place
• don't go over your 2% daily loss limit
• be flat on major data

I read somewhere that they are flexible on being flat on major data if you have a big enough cushion. I don't call the above 3 rules being 'handcuffed', more like sensible.

 

[ScalperJoe]

All these 100s of funded traders, interviews on you tube. They can pass the combine and get funded Joe. You are in danger of sounding like a sore loser.



I can tell you what fantasy is Joe. Fantasy is someone who keeps failing combines and preaches to others how to trade/pass combines.



Ah Joe. Most retail traders have no edge or discipline, they barely know what day it is. It doesn't matter how much equity you give them they will still fail. It's not about the equity Joe. Did you fail your combines because you didn't have enough equity? No you failed because you don't have an edge that you can trade with discipline. You are too focused on worrying about why you cant make it, why the rules are wrong, it's unlikely to change.



really Joe. All I see on this thread is you being negative about TST and having a negative mindset. Granted you throw the odd positive comment in.




There is a lot of improving to do Joe if you are not even a scratch trader. Constantly modifying your approach probably isn't the best way to go in that it is likely you don't know what you are looking for.



Another bizarre comment Joe. Are you honestly expecting people on this forum to listen to you on the subject of 'what it takes to make money with the TST model' when you have failed several combines. Are you going to enlighten us all on what it take? If you know what it takes why haven't you simply done that Joe.

I just don't get it. Why continue to slate the TST process and continually rant on about how hard it is and how most of the funded traders don't make any money WHILST failing several combines yourself I am just saying how it looks for the outside Joe.

I am just readdressing the balance here Joe, TST offers a great service to aspiring traders and it's a great opportunity in the right hands. I hate to see the losing traders stop any new traders from utilising TST.

Once again, you ignore the crux of the argument, and resort to attacking the messenger. Do you think traders sign up for Top Step to simply pass a combine? If you took a survey of why traders sign up for a combine, I'll bet the answer is twofold: 1)to trade within a structured environment without the use of one's own capital. And 2) to make money.

We both know that TST does in fact provide an opportunity for aspiring futures traders to trade within a structured environment, so that's a given. So then the key is how to generate the profits. I'm simply pointing out how the basic math works.

To make a claim that "it's not about the equity" is laughable! Of course it's about the equity! Having more equity simply improves the odds. We're not talking about absolutes here, only probabilities.

By the way, I do plan to eventually pass a combine, and I'll be sure to post the results here. Will that change the facts that I've addressed here? No, it won't. Will the "funded traders" who haven't built up an effective profit cushion during the first 10 days of the live account be taking checks? No, they won't. Therefore, it really makes no difference if "150 funded traders" have passed a combine, what really matters is how to monetize the scale up plan. Those who have built EQUITY in their accounts have higher odds, and that's a fact.

 

[ScalperJoe]

I was the one who asked him a few years ago and he said none had made more than 30k back then. He also promised to post the year end trading results and then welched when the time came. My problem is don't preach straight forward and transparent but act the opposite. Throws up major flags to me and is not an entity I would feel comfortable doing business with. I thought they will let you scale up even if you passed a lower combine as long as you as leave enough profits in the account to cover the risk ? And why do you remain handcuffed by so many rules even though you have built up a cushion that covers your risk to them ? Seems counterproductive to make someone trade so conservative instead of letting them run with what works best for them.

Regarding the posting of "year end trading results" I think that's up to the backer, not TST, since they are separate entities.

I actually think TST has been quite straightforward, especially when the rule changes actually benefits the trader. For example, when they removed the minimum P&L required to take a check, or when they removed the "Junior" and "Senior" funded trader levels.

The "scale up" plan applies to everyone, depending on what combine a trader passed. Even the 10k combine traders can scale up. But it's a catch-22. You can't scale up unless you have enough equity, but you can't build up equity unless you scale up! This is why if one actually wants to make decent money, the bigger combines provide the better opportunity.

Traders are only "handcuffed" within days 1-10 of the live account, during the time when it's crucial to build the cushion. Once that's done, then it seems the rules are less restrictive.

 

[ScalperJoe]

londonkid, here's an older post by Maverick74, almost 5 years ago now, but worthy of reading (especially the last few paragraphs).

"Let me re-phrase what I'm trying to say. A trader with 10k in capital has close to zero chance of ever making it. I know that, Don Bright knows that, Bob Bright knows that and everyone on the street knows that. This is what I was trying to get at when questioning Don about taking in 10k accounts, or youngsters as he likes to call them.

Look, when I started at Worldco back in 2000, we had arguably one of the best markets in history to trade. The only way we could produce good traders was to let them go anywhere from 25k to 100k deep in the red in their accounts. Even the guys that came in with capital, usually 10k to 20k, we let them go 50k into firm money. The good ones dug their way out and did well. The bad ones we cut. Net net they never really lost that much money on them as it was mostly commissions.

I know I'm not suppose to say this but the biggest fraud of the prop firm business is not commissions, or leverage, or whether or not you need a series 7, it's the fact that firms sells the dream of success to young guys that don't know any better. Well I do know better. I know it not because I'm a smart ass trying to pick a fight with Don, this really has little to do with Don in particular, it has to do with the fact that I've been in this business for 10 years and have been around over 1000 traders who have gone through the system. I know the numbers because I've seen the numbers.

There is a direct correlation between the amount of capital you have to trade and your odds of success. Not leverage, CAPITAL! These numbers are indisputable. I know them, I've seen them.

At the end of the day, after 10 years, I realized the biggest edge in this business is not computers, not charts, not leverage, but equity. Pure old fashioned good american equity. If anyone tries to tell you otherwise, they are probably trying to sell you something."

The actual post is from this closed thread:

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...-new-payout-model.204053/page-14#post-2915051

 

[volente_00]

Regarding the posting of "year end trading results" I think that's up to the backer, not TST, since they are separate entities.

I actually think TST has been quite straightforward, especially when the rule changes actually benefits the trader. For example, when they removed the minimum P&L required to take a check, or when they removed the "Junior" and "Senior" funded trader levels.

The "scale up" plan applies to everyone, depending on what combine a trader passed. Even the 10k combine traders can scale up. But it's a catch-22. You can't scale up unless you have enough equity, but you can't build up equity unless you scale up! This is why if one actually wants to make decent money, the bigger combines provide the better opportunity.

Traders are only "handcuffed" within days 1-10 of the live account, during the time when it's crucial to build the cushion. Once that's done, then it seems the rules are less restrictive.

My opinion is the mythical backer is the same person who set up 2 different llc's from the start. Maybe londonkid will tell us if Tst cuts his check or ptp does.

 

[volente_00]

Just looked at the site for first time in a while.
So with a continuous largest combine there is no time limit for the profit target as long as you keep paying for each 30 day period ?


So say I pass the 150k combine

What will be the conditions of live trader prep ?
Same profit and risk parameters as the combine ?
How much time are you given to meet target in live trader prep ?

And if I pass that what will be the conditions of trading live money ?
Same parameters as original passed combine ?

 

[volente_00]

Once again, you ignore the crux of the argument, and resort to attacking the messenger. Do you think traders sign up for Top Step to simply pass a combine? If you took a survey of why traders sign up for a combine, I'll bet the answer is twofold: 1)to trade within a structured environment without the use of one's own capital. And 2) to make money.

We both know that TST does in fact provide an opportunity for aspiring futures traders to trade within a structured environment, so that's a given. So then the key is how to generate the profits. I'm simply pointing out how the basic math works.

To make a claim that "it's not about the equity" is laughable! Of course it's about the equity! Having more equity simply improves the odds. We're not talking about absolutes here, only probabilities.

By the way, I do plan to eventually pass a combine, and I'll be sure to post the results here. Will that change the facts that I've addressed here? No, it won't. Will the "funded traders" who haven't built up an effective profit cushion during the first 10 days of the live account be taking checks? No, they won't. Therefore, it really makes no difference if "150 funded traders" have passed a combine, what really matters is how to monetize the scale up plan. Those who have built EQUITY in their accounts have higher odds, and that's a fact.

londonkid, here's an older post by Maverick74, almost 5 years ago now, but worthy of reading (especially the last few paragraphs).

"Let me re-phrase what I'm trying to say. A trader with 10k in capital has close to zero chance of ever making it. I know that, Don Bright knows that, Bob Bright knows that and everyone on the street knows that. This is what I was trying to get at when questioning Don about taking in 10k accounts, or youngsters as he likes to call them.

Look, when I started at Worldco back in 2000, we had arguably one of the best markets in history to trade. The only way we could produce good traders was to let them go anywhere from 25k to 100k deep in the red in their accounts. Even the guys that came in with capital, usually 10k to 20k, we let them go 50k into firm money. The good ones dug their way out and did well. The bad ones we cut. Net net they never really lost that much money on them as it was mostly commissions.

I know I'm not suppose to say this but the biggest fraud of the prop firm business is not commissions, or leverage, or whether or not you need a series 7, it's the fact that firms sells the dream of success to young guys that don't know any better. Well I do know better. I know it not because I'm a smart ass trying to pick a fight with Don, this really has little to do with Don in particular, it has to do with the fact that I've been in this business for 10 years and have been around over 1000 traders who have gone through the system. I know the numbers because I've seen the numbers.

There is a direct correlation between the amount of capital you have to trade and your odds of success. Not leverage, CAPITAL! These numbers are indisputable. I know them, I've seen them.

At the end of the day, after 10 years, I realized the biggest edge in this business is not computers, not charts, not leverage, but equity. Pure old fashioned good american equity. If anyone tries to tell you otherwise, they are probably trying to sell you something."

The actual post is from this closed thread:

http://www.elitetrader.com/et/index...-new-payout-model.204053/page-14#post-2915051

You party pooper. You just crapped on my dream.

 

[ScalperJoe]

Just looked at the site for first time in a while.
So with a continuous largest combine there is no time limit for the profit target as long as you keep paying for each 30 day period ?


So say I pass the 150k combine

What will be the conditions of live trader prep ?
Same profit and risk parameters as the combine ?
How much time are you given to meet target in live trader prep ?

And if I pass that what will be the conditions of trading live money ?
Same parameters as original passed combine ?

Yes, hence the name "continuous combine." But remember, you only get ten days in the live account to prove yourself with the cushion, which then becomes your equity. So to maximize the effectiveness of the continuous combine, it's better to still only trade for ten days. The advantage is you can cherry pick the optimal days, unlike the standard combine, where you are restricted by one calendar month.

From prior posts, traders have stated that the live trader prep has the same risk parameters, except the profit target is 50% of the combine, and must be reached within 60 days.

Live accounts have the same parameters of the combine, PLUS the two added rules: weekly stop out limit (which reduces the daily limit if you trade each day), AND the scale up rules.

 

[ScalperJoe]

You party pooper. You just crapped on my dream.

Sorry volente, no room for pikers at TST.