Topsteptrader

[smallStops]

1. Thread isn't about me, it is about TST's business practice.
2. Why do I need to experience something to realize if it is bad for me? I never got shot in the face, but I have a hunch it is detrimental to my health, so I am trying to avoid it and also advise others to do so.

Anyhow, I am taking a vacation from this thread, the poor dead horse has only bones left...

Pekelo,

Well, as I am actually going over "the Book of Job", I understand the importance of health.
Effectively, even Steve Jobs with all his billions could not cure his own cancer, but funnily enough, quiet a few people manage to cure their cancer without having any billion.

Health can be improved. But obviously, the key is to have access , find those who know how.

 

[ScalperJoe]

OK so you are telling me to evaluate the opportunity objectively. Dude, I passed my combine 1st time, you have been failing why would I want to take your advice let alone accept you telling me to evaluate something objectively. This is the sort of nonsense that goes on via forums/social media.

Dude, it's pointless having a constructive debate when you take things out of context. My only reference to Crispy was that he claimed his account was too small, and therefore he was unable to monetize the scale up plan. This has direct correlation with the profit cushion, however you seem to ignore this correlation. I actually even mentioned that Crispy was profitable. It's quite possible that other traders have had similar experiences.

But you're right, don't take my advice, and ignore the concept of building an adequate cushion within the first 10 days of the live account.

Please do keep us informed regarding your progress in the live account, it would be quite helpful.

 

[ScalperJoe]

TST offers a free simulated account for you to practice until you are READY to attempt a combine. Here is a clue, you are not ready until you can make the combine parameters consistently in the free simulated account. If traders insist on taking 20+ combines and not utilising the free simulated account, whose fault is that.

Yes, I've mentioned that before, and it's sound advice. The cost used to be $100/month, reduced to $35, and you get the charts as well.

I'm using it now on the 150k sim account. I agree one should use this route before taking the combine. The risk parameters are the same, so it's a good way to test various trading strategies for minimal cost.

 

[shiko2000]

a good effort Shiko. Would you say your lack of success in the live account was down to bad luck or not having a strong enough edge? (or perhaps some other reason).

Bad luck. Market changed drastically especially March/ April. I was allowed to trade ZS only and they died on me. I traded both my and TST money and lost on both. Albeit, I later moved to trade different instrument with my money and traded losses back, but TST money I would lose anyway due to inactivity. I did not trade my account for months and a half after that losing streak in March.
I did built a cushion on my own account, because I was trading through good and bad times.

 

[ScalperJoe]

What really blows my mind is, that there are 6+ threads on ET about TST with a combined (no pun intended) post count of 3400 posts, and we still get people asking the very same questions and not being able to reach a conclusion what was already posted 4 years ago:

Patak Trading

Back then PTP/TST was more honest and they clearly stated that the Live account was only 10K. Then apparently the PR department got hold of them that people are complaining about the account size and thus the 30-50-100K dream accounts were born. Since most people can't do basic math or simple analysis, they keep believing it...

Pretty much everything what poster Dobbes said in 2010 December in the above link is still valid today.

Pekelo,

Yes, the analysis is quite simple, and as you've stated, it's about the analysis and basic math. Here's a post from that thread, obviously this guy gets it (underline is for emphasis).

I think everyone is getting too hung up on the issue of the account size (i.e. $50K, $100K, etc). Think of it more in terms of buying power. With the $50K account you can trade up to 5 lots, so that's your buying power. In reality you'd need a good profit cushion to do 5 lots since the most you're allowed to lose in a day with that account size is $1K.

 

[shiko2000]

Shiko,

Your experience is actually very instructive.
How did it happen: how many combine did you pass before your first LTP?
Then when did you go back to a combine? how many more combines
before to get send back to a LTP?
How long did all of this take?
Most importantly, what in your view is important for TST as far as trading performance
is concerned?

First Combine I believe I passed when you might remember I lacked few bucks to make target for $50K account. Second Combine I passed last summer and got live funds without LTP. After 10 days I was down a bit , some $100. I had to take 10 days Combine. I passed it but failed LTP. Got another Combine 10 days passed it if I remember correctly. Then LTP, but I traded LTP in wrong hours... pre open. Hence did not count. Got another and passed. Started trading live March 1 and surprise. I only paid attention later because I never for the whole year I traded ZS i have seen them so dead. Basically no momentum and I got too accustomed to high volatility of previous months. Only after 4-5 trades losing streak in a row I checked daily chart and saw that ZS was basically in very tight situation. I assumed accumulation on daily.

TST wants consistency with low risk. Once trader starts trading live he must trade the way he traded during Combine/ LTP. And market changes. Hence luck is important

 

[ScalperJoe]

First Combine I believe I passed when you might remember I lacked few bucks to make target for $50K account. Second Combine I passed last summer and got live funds without LTP. After 10 days I was down a bit , some $100. I had to take 10 days Combine. I passed it but failed LTP. Got another Combine 10 days passed it if I remember correctly. Then LTP, but I traded LTP in wrong hours... pre open. Hence did not count. Got another and passed. Started trading live March 1 and surprise. I only paid attention later because I never for the whole year I traded ZS i have seen them so dead. Basically no momentum and I got too accustomed to high volatility of previous months. Only after 4-5 trades losing streak in a row I checked daily chart and saw that ZS was basically in very tight situation. I assumed accumulation on daily.

TST wants consistency with low risk. Once trader starts trading live he must trade the way he traded during Combine/ LTP. And market changes. Hence luck is important

shiko2000:

As I recall you posted decent stats in the combine, and had consistency with passing multiple times. Your post speaks volumes about the critical aspect of the TST live account, especially this sentence:

"...got live funds without LTP. After 10 days I was down a bit, some $100. I had to take 10 days combine."

This is the issue I've been beating to a pulp. It's the 10 days of building a profit cushion that really matters. And you're right, it requires volatility in the product you are trading, plus "consistency with low risk."

 

[londonkid]

shiko2000:

As I recall you posted decent stats in the combine, and had consistency with passing multiple times. Your post speaks volumes about the critical aspect of the TST live account, especially this sentence:

"...got live funds without LTP. After 10 days I was down a bit, some $100. I had to take 10 days combine."

This is the issue I've been beating to a pulp. It's the 10 days of building a profit cushion that really matters. And you're right, it requires volatility in the product you are trading, plus "consistency with low risk."

No shit sherlock! you have certainly pulped that issue good. I think we all get your point Joe. What it boils down to is don't take a combine until you are ready (you are not ready until you can consistently pass it on demo). Once you get to days 1-10 of funded you need to put in a similar performance to the combine to build your cushion. This underlines the point further that you need to be ready to do the combine. The TST rule set is such that if you cannot continue to trade in a similar way to your passed combine you will very likely fail. Of course on day 11+ of funded time constraints are removed which will ease the pressure.

 

[countercountertrend]

Ok just a couple of things I have heard on this post that are simply untrue. Firstly, the TST combines are not geared for scalping. Sounds like utter rubbish. Risk management is crucial with the combines, scalping is low variance and low risk so this is optimal for combines. It is harder if you require relatively large stops on your trades. Then I assume your profit targets are also larger so you compensate by trading less size. Secondly, there are very few funded traders. TST backed their 150th trader this year. I have heard there are over 200 funded traders. Of these traders, I am not sure how many trade professionally for a living. Many new traders have jobs and what not, so the goal is to build a cushion and develop skill and confidence before transitioning to full time. Finally, I think the best value you get out of the combines is you experience pressure. You have money on the line. Pressure is what separates live trading from sim. When winning becomes important, losing becomes a threat and that introduces fear and pressure. That will mess with your perception. The most value I have gotten from the combines was learning how to control risk under pressure. I'd rather learn than from a few combines than blow several thousand dollars on a live account.

 

[ScalperJoe]

The most value I have gotten from the combines was learning how to control risk under pressure. I'd rather learn than from a few combines than blow several thousand dollars on a live account.

Absolutely. When the naysayers claim "it's simulator, anyone can make money trading sim" they don't understand that the combine will FORCE you to identify your weaknesses and improve upon them. Hence the combine is a great way to control risk under pressure.

It's better (and more cost effective) to spend the money on a combine vs. a "blow up" on a live account.

Regarding the number of "funded traders" remember those are just the ones who passed the combine, which may or may not reflect the actual number of traders currently trading a live account. It's already been discussed extensively.