Topsteptrader

[buyhighsellhigher]

Failed screen traders who don't know sht about profitable screen trading provide metrics on other screen traders' accounts for the purpose of their FUNDING and DEVELOPMENT

They do this to make money from the combine since they cannot make money themselves, JUST like all the other pit traders who failed to transition to screen trading get into the businesses I outlined in the other posts.
So their Metrics are worthless together with their education since their education and metrics are taken from their failed screen trading wisdom for the purpose of making money from the combine to run it like a business.


Fantastic, Statements proven with supporting evidence,( close enough agreement) now let's move on.


You provided some great responses. I think these are good points that you mention, I will list your claims clearly:

1)The traders are usually irresponsible and lose 20k on average in futures, so instead of them doing that, THESE traders come to TST to take a $200 combine to find out that they suck at trading or lack something WITHOUT losing the expensive 20k.
Therefore, TST does these traders a service and that is the VALUE in the combine.

2) The combine is also fantastic and has another value in that;
We, the traders, cannot keep ourselves DISCIPLINED enough, and cannot be HONEST with ourselves when we trade on a live free demo account.
We, the traders, always make excuses, reset our accounts, do not take ACCOUNTABILITY, do not keep a HONEST TRACK RECORD of our performance when demo trading.

However, the combine FORCES these things upon us. And therefore by the combine FORCING ALL of these things upon us, we become BETTER traders, and/or have the potential to IMPROVE our trading this way.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


IN SUMMARY: An average trader takes 6 combines, pays $1,200 and takes up 1 year of his time.


IF the trader gets funded with the metrics/restrictions set on his account by the losing screen traders the trader will be given a 30k account with a $1,500 max loss on the whole account.
IN ADDITION he will be required to trade with the same restrictions that he did in the combine.

IN ADDITION there will be ONE more restriction on his account, and that is he will be REQUIRED to trade with a max position size of 1 contract until he builds up his account in the restricting environment the losing screen traders provide him.

With trading the odds are already against you, especially with day trading. However, they apply their losing screen trading wisdom to make sure the odds are even more against you. Did they trade Profitably with these restrictions themselves? Did they succeed in transitioning to become profitable screen traders with these metrics? did they take guinea pigs from other prop firms and do research/experiments? Their intentions are completely opposite and their stated combine objective, as they simply do this to make money as outlined in the first paragraph.

Why do they give you a 30k daytrading account, they can just give you a 5k-10k daytrading account with that type of loss limit. UNLIKE REAL prop firms, TST does NOT give you leverage/buying power. INSTEAD they apply restrictions/metrics based on their failed screen trading wisdom AND even apply a buying power restriction of 1 lot, minimizing your leverage/buying power.

so the trader loses $1,200 together with 1 year, and if he somehow breaks-even he still makes less than a person with no education that works in McDonalds (which is really irrelevant, but still)

Let's continue...


As I had showed you examples of REAL PROFITABLE traders with VERIFIED TRACK RECORDS and their interviews (prev. posts) did any one of those traders come from TST.
Did any one of those traders need someone to FORCE them to be DISCIPLINED, force them to be ACCOUNTABLE, force them to keep a TRACK RECORD of their trading?

Did anybodies mommy or daddy FORCE them to become a doctor because they hated studying, hated the profession, and had no will of their own? is that how they became successful.

My friends, we are not talking about getting VALUE here. We are talking about MAKING MONEY.

The reason that I say these things is because I have done my research on real PROFESSIONAL VERIFIED traders, as I have said in the previous posts my friends, and I know the big difference with learning from them, 100% honest and accountable, and being fed all of these REASONS and EXCUSES from FAILED SCREEN TRADERS who run a TRADING BUSINESS and are unprofitable themselves.


Do you really believe their failed trading bogus that they run. I HAD MYSELF, since I was committed to becoming a consistent part time earner in the markets, I really understand.
BUT, when I started doing research, which took forever and a long time, I found PROFESSIONAL VERIFIED traders and understood and REALIZED the difference and reason that these people ran this bogus right away my friends.
What does your neighbor know about surgery? he doesn't know shit and I will NEVER become a successful Surgeon if I learn from him no matter how much googling he does, no matter how much sht he runs on me, no matter how much he blames it on me and tells me most people don't make it. There is a difference when learning from the 90% of failed screen traders and the 5% consistent earners (Which are very difficult to find by the way).

So it doesn't matter what these already failed screen traders come up with because they don't know anything like all of the other pit traders who failed to transition and run similar businesses with the same intentions.

The point here is that listening to them and taking their combine, even those 2 values that you guys mentioned, is all futile when you compare how professional VERIFIED consistent earners become profitable in the markets and when you compare education from people who actually specialize in the field that you want to specialize in. You will see the bogus from the people that don't specialize and are not real professions in the field right away.



And so it is VERY difficult to find these Verified professionals and good education from them SINCE it's merely 5% of traders who don't all teach. HOWEVER this does NOT give TST or any other company the right to ACT or seem like a professional useful firm with useful services to those traders who have not found Professional Verified traders and do not know what a real professional is. These traders should not be trapped into justifying them because of lack of knowledge.

Since people hear of the "stock market" or "trading, and of the "banks" and "hedge funds" are involved in trading they automatically think every professional is a professional. They think this is a legit industry like medicine where only true doctors can act as doctors and run their medical business. But little do they know this industry is filled with the 90% (do you know how big 90% is?) losers who are all fakes, and some of them are great people and some are terrible, but they all mislead and have different intentions than what it seems and non of them are professionals. And they can get away with it legally.

 

[RealTrader]

The medical industry is the third leading cause of death in the U.S.

Q. You know what they call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school?

A. Doctor

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leahbinder/2013/09/23/stunning-news-on-preventable-deaths-in-hospitals/

At least in the trading industry, if "they" mislead you about a combine that might cost the average aspiring trader between a couple hundred and a couple thousand dollars while they try to make it, it's unlikely to result in death.

Every professional regulated industry has it's loop holes that were missed or are unattended for and there are people who take advantage off things, BUT this is MINIMIZED when CERTIFIED actual professionals are doing it and not FAKE unregulated unaccounted professionals that claim FALSE expertise.

Do you know how many deaths there would be if anybody could claim to be a doctor without going through medical school? will there me MORE or LESS deaths if ANYBODY could claim False expertise to be a doctor?


By the information/article that you provide you PROVE that certification is not only necessary but it needs to be TOUGHER and things need to be MORE regulated and ACCOUNTED for since more bs goes on otherwise. If doctors were unregulated without policies EVEN WORSE things would happen


Do you want to be treated by a certified doctor who went through medical school or by your neighbor who is not a doctor? you IMPLY that EVEN DOCTORS need to have stronger qualifications, so you support my claim with the evidence that you have provided.


You say that people die in hospitals due to preventable situations that should be MORE regulated, but at TST since they are FAKE professionals and lie about their intentions and charge you 200$ for it, it isn't nearly as bad as dying in a hospital from preventable deaths?

What's next? Then you'll say it's ok because in Afghanistan people lose their lives and limbs while in TST you will only lose $200? lmao are you serious.

 

[Turveyd]

It's a con, pure and simple, they make MILLIONS from dangling a carrot, making it hard for anyone to pass and even if you pass, you have to go through there training course, still might not get selected if they don't approve of your trading style and if you pass all this, 1 bad day and your out LOL

Then there are the huge data feed fee's.


Don't waste your time and money and yes I wish I'd of thought of similar be a millionaire easy from that LOL

 

[deaddog]

Failed screen traders who don't know sht about profitable screen trading provide metrics on other screen traders' accounts for the purpose of their FUNDING and DEVELOPMENT

They do this to make money from the combine since they cannot make money themselves, JUST like all the other pit traders who failed to transition to screen trading get into the businesses I outlined in the other posts.
So their Metrics are worthless together with their education since their education and metrics are taken from their failed screen trading wisdom for the purpose of making money from the combine to run it like a business.

Is the failed screen trader a red herring? Does it really matter?

To use a sports analogy, the people who coach athletes are rarely as talented as the athletes.

How about the guys teaching the Doctors and Lawyers? If they were any good why wouldn't they be out in the real world doctoring and lawyering making the big bucks.

There is a possibility that a failed trader will know the mistakes he is making and not have the discipline to correct them. That doesn’t mean that he won’t be capable of teaching others.

Those you can, do; those who can’t teach.

 

[Maverick74]

It's a con, pure and simple, they make MILLIONS from dangling a carrot, making it hard for anyone to pass and even if you pass, you have to go through there training course, still might not get selected if they don't approve of your trading style and if you pass all this, 1 bad day and your out LOL

Then there are the huge data feed fee's.


Don't waste your time and money and yes I wish I'd of thought of similar be a millionaire easy from that LOL

I love how people on this board think these guys are making millions. I would say there is a 50% probability they are not even profitable as a firm. Because if the money was easy, if it was such a lock, then like you said, why aren't any of the 10,000 vendors out there doing it? There is a general law in the universe that has held since Babylonian times, if something really works, everyone will imitate it. And the few firms that even tried crashed and burned. Nobody is trying to get into this. So if there really was millions to be made here, trust me, there would be 50 to 100 firms offering it. Of course since hardly anyone on ET has ever run a business before, it does not surprise me that so few people understand how hard it is to run one.

 

[Maverick74]

Real Trader, I know you are working on a 15 page response. Can I ask a favor of you? Is there any way you can shorten your posts to say a few paragraphs? If you have to, just start another post. I doubt anyone is reading them because they are just too long and winded. I know this isn't twitter but there is a unwritten rule on forums that posts should be short and to the point. Thanks big fella...

 

[RealTrader]

Is the failed screen trader a red herring? Does it really matter?

To use a sports analogy, the people who coach athletes are rarely as talented as the athletes.

How about the guys teaching the Doctors and Lawyers? If they were any good why wouldn't they be out in the real world doctoring and lawyering making the big bucks.

There is a possibility that a failed trader will know the mistakes he is making and not have the discipline to correct them. That doesn’t mean that he won’t be capable of teaching others.

Those you can, do; those who can’t teach.

It's a good statement/analogy that you provide and I used to think the same way because I wanted to believe them and never questioned it to the detail because it makes sense first hand (they make the same analogies)

HOWEVER

The analogy is MISLEADING and is therefore false
Why?


When you become a doctor, a professor or multiple professors teach you the "know how" of medicine in college and then test you on this knowledge. The professors themselves ARE NOT doctors.

As a doctor you have to know this whole book, lets say, 10,200 page book. These professors help you learn this material because they also KNOW this material and SPECIALIZE in teaching it, since they KNOW IT.

When you get into medical school and when you become an intern you will work in the hospital with another person for the sake of working with patients and IDENTIFYING their conditions that you have all learned from the book. Another person, probably a DOCTOR, someone who also SPECIALIZES in identifying patients' conditions will be there to Test you on that specific knowledge.


In sports, or lets say becoming a NAVY SEAL

There will be a division of people who ARE NOT navy seals who will teach you how to conduct operations underwater. These people SPECIALIZE in conducting operations underwater and SPECIALIZE in teaching it because they KNOW how it's done.

Then you will go to the shooting range were a group of people who ARE NOT navy seals will teach you about every weapon. Theses group of people SPECIALIZE in Knowing everything about these weapons and they can in teaching it because they KNOW them.

Then you will go to another shooting range were they will teach you how to shoot weapons. These group of people ARE NOT navy seals. These people ARE PROFESSIONALS/specialize in shooting weapons, Hence, they teach you this.

Once you know and pass everything in each category you will be working with NAVY SEALS in simulated missions (crackhouse shooting training) and then be on a Navy Seal team

--------------------------COMPARISON-------------------------------------


In trading if you have to learn a book that is 150 pages long, EDDIE who is a FAILED SCREEN TRADER and is NOT a profitable trader can teach you this material if he knows it himself. If he KNOWS/SPECIALIZES in this material he can teach you it because he knows it.

Some one else, John, SPECIALIZES in identifying the patterns that you learned in the 120 page book (he knows how to identify these patterns on the chart).
Since he SPECIALIZES in it and KNOWS how to do it, he will teach it to you and test you on it. However he is NOT a Profitable trader and he is a FAILED SCREEN TRADER as well.


All of THIS knowledge you can learn by yourself ( a 5th grader can do it) But WITH THIS knowledge ALONE, CAN you make money consistently? If you program a system to trade these patterns from the book with different R:R's you will notice that ALL of them are 50% at best and break-even - commissions.


You need a SPECIALIST or PROFESSIONAL TRADER who specializes in making it work for him by applying this knowledge to make profit consistently. A person who CANNOT make profit consistently CANNOT teach you how to make profit consistently. THESE SPECIALISTS need to SPECIALIZE in this IN ORDER to TEACH you about it.

They are basically PROFITABLE TRADERS in this situation, and they ARE NOT FAILED SCREEN TRADERS because a FAILED SCREEN TRADER does not SPECIALIZE in PROFITABLE TRADING hence, he cannot teach you. He can only give you irrelevant bogus, and maybe you will learn by yourself (1%chance)


With a real pro maybe 40% chance you will lean? 60%? greater than 1% though. Not sure you would want a doctor to to be trained in these conditions , or a Navy Seal trained by a garbage man or even a knowledgeable soldier.
Some one who doesn't know how to cook cannot teach you how to cook. He can teach you how to blow up the kitchen though.
Someone who does not KNOW how to fight cannot teach you how to fight.

But someone who KNOWS RECIPES, CAN teach you different recipes that can come in handy for you.
Someone who KNOWS how to punch, CAN teach you how to punch with your hand and fist. But you will get destroyed in the octagon. You need a trainer who will give you some sparring practice where you will learn from experience and not from the trainer himself in THAT situation.


IDENTIFY and detail what you are COMPARING what WITH in order to use it as supporting evidence. It is very difficult to give accurate analogies they need to be targeted specifically and ACCURATELY and not in a MISLEADING way like a politician.

 

[istoptime]

i'll chime in. lurker and now member. Doctors have passed exams, shown competency, and have the basic credibility. to teach other doctors, they need to be hired, giving them more credibility. and then to keep their job they must give some good, useful information. and a lot teachers need a Phd, or PhdMD in this case I'm guessing, so that is more credibility. but you can go to a bad school, so don't expect to teach at a good school.

anyone can buy a website and sell junk, since they have decided to spend time selling crap instead of making money. is that bad? no, it's great for the guy selling stuff. less risk and hopefully he can "fake it until he makes it". money is money. scam is money if someone gives you money for horrible information. you never have to trade, or ever traded before, and have zero credibility is fine....just learn to sell.

TST have clearly found a plan to sell to all the unemployed who hope they can make real money with very little. they sell to dreamers. i feel bad for the dreamers. but people buy cars they don't need, houses too big, 2k watches, etc.....so this is good.

same as youtube, where very few make a living but everyone posts horrible stuff and thinks they will get rich overnight. fun to see a "trading guru" with 100 views, versus a cat that gets 10 million. everything is marketing.

 

[Maverick74]

i'll chime in. lurker and now member. Doctors have passed exams, shown competency, and have the basic credibility. to teach other doctors, they need to be hired, giving them more credibility. and then to keep their job they must give some good, useful information. and a lot teachers need a Phd, or PhdMD in this case I'm guessing, so that is more credibility. but you can go to a bad school, so don't expect to teach at a good school.

anyone can buy a website and sell junk, since they have decided to spend time selling crap instead of making money. is that bad? no, it's great for the guy selling stuff. less risk and hopefully he can "fake it until he makes it". money is money. scam is money if someone gives you money for horrible information. you never have to trade, or ever traded before, and have zero credibility is fine....just learn to sell.

TST have clearly found a plan to sell to all the unemployed who hope they can make real money with very little. they sell to dreamers. i feel bad for the dreamers. but people buy cars they don't need, houses too big, 2k watches, etc.....so this is good.

same as youtube, where very few make a living but everyone posts horrible stuff and thinks they will get rich overnight. fun to see a "trading guru" with 100 views, versus a cat that gets 10 million. everything is marketing.

I love all the one post wonders joining ET.

BTW, you know who offers the biggest dream of all?

ET!!!!!!! And you are all here drinking it up!

 

[RealTrader]

If a trader CANNOT stay disciplined and his students CANNOT stay disciplined, then he CANNOT teach them how to stay disciplined in order to make profit.

But wait, what the hell is discipline in trading anyway
Who taught you you need discipline? TST the Failed screen traders?
What is the point of discipline if you do not have an edge. But NOBODY has an edge. BY EDGE I mean some cheating way of making money in the market. Only the big boys do that because they can.

You need a SPECIALIST or PROFESSIONAL TRADER who specializes in making it work for him by applying his knowledge and/or skills to make profit consistently as explained in the previous post. Either by stock research, discretionary application, or system application.

my friend, don't be fooled by their futile bogus because they are FAILED SCREEN TRADERS. It is all Misleading information and has no CLAIMS and has no supporting evidence, it is just bogus.

Do you think 90% of the failed traders can teach you how to trade profitably since they do NOT KNOW how to trade profitably? maybe we can all benefit here and use everyone's FAILED SCREEN TRADING knowledge. My friend, it is obvious that it is nonsupporting misleading bogus.


Sorry Mav and everyone for the long posts but I go into extreme detail and transparency and want to answer and describe everything. This is the TST thread and it's too long no doubt but I can't risk losing/interrupting the conversation here with whatever ppl are here, if anyone wants to make a new thread please notify us. I do not know how this forum works or the admins but I am discussing TST here on the topic of the thread name.