What are the most common mistakes that people make trading when you managed a prop firm?
Topsteptrader
- Thread starter deaddog
- Start date
What are the most common mistakes that people make trading when you managed a prop firm?
Mavs comments toward topstep are right on. All of the people talking negative about the combine are not thinking correctly about the process of becoming a professional at something.
Everyone is bitching about how rigged the system is and its about making money off of novice traders. Yes it is, get over it. But those $200 combine fees are pointless for novice traders. Open up a 5k futures account and see how fast you lose $200, if you only lose $200 that would be a huge accomplishment for a novice.
Bottom line,
Take the combine 10 times...when you get your discipline good enough to pass one of them, or have consistently profitable PnL even if you miss some of the performance metrics, then you might be ready for that 5k futures account.
Use TST as a practice court, do you think Federer did not practice before he arrived at the US open?
The under appreciated aspect about what your speaking of is you`re actually held to some standard. Whereas if you run your own sim its easy to toss it and refresh when you have had a bad day, break rules, change "indicators", change systems..and all the other million reasons people lose money.
Sure you can do it yourself on a sim free of charge. But most people cannot remain honest even when its only themselves in charge... The irony of course being that self discipline and trading go together like the molecules: two parts Carbon and one part Oxygen. Its the essential life force.
Exactly. I really can't understand why people constantly complain about TST. Yes, their business model is about taking money for deposits, maybe they really don't want to back traders. But so what, use their service to hone your own skills. get consistent and the rest pretty much takes care of itself.
Using this approach, you can bomb a few combines and only be out $600+/-. You make a few mistakes live trading, its surely gonna cost you more then a few hundred.
Finally we almost all agree on everything! 
1. Except when they came here it was all about backing traders and everyone thought TST was the best invention since slice bread. The education part came much later..
2. You can't really learn a new skill just by taking tests. You either had something already or you won't learn much new by keep taking a test way too hard for your original skills. Not to mention some of their metrics has NOTHING to do with real life trading, so it doesn't help at all. Why is a 55% win ratio is important to any real trader? Some of us still remember their Trading Duration bullshit...
3. One can be a consistently profitable papertrader and still a loser when it comes to real money trading. So no, the rest taking care of everything is not guaranteed.
4. Exactly! When I play Razzle Dazzle and lose a few hundred bucks, I know I have just learnt a valuable lesson about life what would have costed me thousands in real life!
1. Except when they came here it was all about backing traders and everyone thought TST was the best invention since slice bread. The education part came much later..
2. You can't really learn a new skill just by taking tests. You either had something already or you won't learn much new by keep taking a test way too hard for your original skills. Not to mention some of their metrics has NOTHING to do with real life trading, so it doesn't help at all. Why is a 55% win ratio is important to any real trader? Some of us still remember their Trading Duration bullshit...
3. One can be a consistently profitable papertrader and still a loser when it comes to real money trading. So no, the rest taking care of everything is not guaranteed.
4. Exactly! When I play Razzle Dazzle and lose a few hundred bucks, I know I have just learnt a valuable lesson about life what would have costed me thousands in real life!
Finally we almost all agree on everything!
1. Except when they came here it was all about backing traders and everyone thought TST was the best invention since slice bread. The education part came much later..
2. You can't really learn a new skill just by taking tests. You either had something already or you won't learn much new by keep taking a test way too hard for your original skills. Not to mention some of their metrics has NOTHING to do with real life trading, so it doesn't help at all. Why is a 55% win ratio is important to any real trader? Some of us still remember their Trading Duration bullshit...
3. One can be a consistently profitable papertrader and still a loser when it comes to real money trading. So no, the rest taking care of everything is not guaranteed.
4. Exactly! When I play Razzle Dazzle and lose a few hundred bucks, I know I have just learnt a valuable lesson about life what would have costed me thousands in real life!
3. yes people can still turn out to be bad traders once they open their own account, how is that TSTs problem? They give you a platform to prove to yourself that you can do it on a sim platform with rigid rules, now if they cant follow their plan....then they probably would have lost all of their 5k/10k/15k deposit. So in the end, TST has saved them a ton of money.
2. you dont learn a new skill by taking tests. ok, but you can filter out some shit you are doing wrong if you study hard enough.
Summer Sale at TST, Trading Challenge for $35, 1 week, starting on the 3rd:
https://www.topsteptrader.com/chall...7cce9075337c16cb68d624e85846c72393476fe16a795
Now that is a discount.... Me likey....
There are no metrics and you can hold overnight. No daily loss limit. Maybe they are testing if without metrics they can find/found more traders...
Edit: They should have a DD limit, even if it isn't daily. Since multiple entries are allowed, one can win by entering max. account size in opposite directions using the most volatile instrument and if the exit is timed right, there you have a winner.
https://www.topsteptrader.com/chall...7cce9075337c16cb68d624e85846c72393476fe16a795
Now that is a discount.... Me likey....
There are no metrics and you can hold overnight. No daily loss limit. Maybe they are testing if without metrics they can find/found more traders...
Edit: They should have a DD limit, even if it isn't daily. Since multiple entries are allowed, one can win by entering max. account size in opposite directions using the most volatile instrument and if the exit is timed right, there you have a winner.
Failed screen traders who don't know sht about profitable screen trading provide metrics on other screen traders' accounts for the purpose of their FUNDING and DEVELOPMENT
They do this to make money from the combine since they cannot make money themselves, JUST like all the other pit traders who failed to transition to screen trading get into the businesses I outlined in the other posts.
So their Metrics are worthless together with their education since their education and metrics are taken from their failed screen trading wisdom for the purpose of making money from the combine to run it like a business.
Fantastic, Statements proven with supporting evidence,( close enough agreement) now let's move on.
You provided some great responses. I think these are good points that you mention, I will list your claims clearly:
1)The traders are usually irresponsible and lose 20k on average in futures, so instead of them doing that, THESE traders come to TST to take a $200 combine to find out that they suck at trading or lack something WITHOUT losing the expensive 20k.
Therefore, TST does these traders a service and that is the VALUE in the combine.
2) The combine is also fantastic and has another value in that;
We, the traders, cannot keep ourselves DISCIPLINED enough, and cannot be HONEST with ourselves when we trade on a live free demo account.
We, the traders, always make excuses, reset our accounts, do not take ACCOUNTABILITY, do not keep a HONEST TRACK RECORD of our performance when demo trading.
However, the combine FORCES these things upon us. And therefore by the combine FORCING ALL of these things upon us, we become BETTER traders, and/or have the potential to IMPROVE our trading this way.
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IN SUMMARY: An average trader takes 6 combines, pays $1,200 and takes up 1 year of his time.
IF the trader gets funded with the metrics/restrictions set on his account by the losing screen traders the trader will be given a 30k account with a $1,500 max loss on the whole account.
IN ADDITION he will be required to trade with the same restrictions that he did in the combine.
IN ADDITION there will be ONE more restriction on his account, and that is he will be REQUIRED to trade with a max position size of 1 contract until he builds up his account in the restricting environment the losing screen traders provide him.
With trading the odds are already against you, especially with day trading. However, they apply their losing screen trading wisdom to make sure the odds are even more against you. Did they trade Profitably with these restrictions themselves? Did they succeed in transitioning to become profitable screen traders with these metrics? did they take guinea pigs from other prop firms and do research/experiments? Their intentions are completely opposite and their stated combine objective, as they simply do this to make money as outlined in the first paragraph.
Why do they give you a 30k daytrading account, they can just give you a 5k-10k daytrading account with that type of loss limit. UNLIKE REAL prop firms, TST does NOT give you leverage/buying power. INSTEAD they apply restrictions/metrics based on their failed screen trading wisdom AND even apply a buying power restriction of 1 lot, minimizing your leverage/buying power.
so the trader loses $1,200 together with 1 year, and if he somehow breaks-even he still makes less than a person with no education that works in McDonalds (which is really irrelevant, but still)
Let's continue...
As I had showed you examples of REAL PROFITABLE traders with VERIFIED TRACK RECORDS and their interviews (prev. posts) did any one of those traders come from TST.
Did any one of those traders need someone to FORCE them to be DISCIPLINED, force them to be ACCOUNTABLE, force them to keep a TRACK RECORD of their trading?
Did anybodies mommy or daddy FORCE them to become a doctor because they hated studying, hated the profession, and had no will of their own? is that how they became successful.
My friends, we are not talking about getting VALUE here. We are talking about MAKING MONEY.
The reason that I say these things is because I have done my research on real PROFESSIONAL VERIFIED traders, as I have said in the previous posts my friends, and I know the big difference with learning from them, 100% honest and accountable, and being fed all of these REASONS and EXCUSES from FAILED SCREEN TRADERS who run a TRADING BUSINESS and are unprofitable themselves.
Do you really believe their failed trading bogus that they run. I HAD MYSELF, since I was committed to becoming a consistent part time earner in the markets, I really understand.
BUT, when I started doing research, which took forever and a long time, I found PROFESSIONAL VERIFIED traders and understood and REALIZED the difference and reason that these people ran this bogus right away my friends.
What does your neighbor know about surgery? he doesn't know shit and I will NEVER become a successful Surgeon if I learn from him no matter how much googling he does, no matter how much sht he runs on me, no matter how much he blames it on me and tells me most people don't make it. There is a difference when learning from the 90% of failed screen traders and the 5% consistent earners (Which are very difficult to find by the way).
So it doesn't matter what these already failed screen traders come up with because they don't know anything like all of the other pit traders who failed to transition and run similar businesses with the same intentions.
The point here is that listening to them and taking their combine, even those 2 values that you guys mentioned, is all futile when you compare how professional VERIFIED consistent earners become profitable in the markets and when you compare education from people who actually specialize in the field that you want to specialize in. You will see the bogus from the people that don't specialize and are not real professions in the field right away.
And so it is VERY difficult to find these Verified professionals and good education from them SINCE it's merely 5% of traders who don't all teach. HOWEVER this does NOT give TST or any other company the right to ACT or seem like a professional useful firm with useful services to those traders who have not found Professional Verified traders and do not know what a real professional is. These traders should not be trapped into justifying them because of lack of knowledge.
Since people hear of the "stock market" or "trading, and of the "banks" and "hedge funds" are involved in trading they automatically think every professional is a professional. They think this is a legit industry like medicine where only true doctors can act as doctors and run their medical business. But little do they know this industry is filled with the 90% (do you know how big 90% is?) losers who are all fakes, and some of them are great people and some are terrible, but they all mislead and have different intentions than what it seems and non of them are professionals. And they can get away with it legally.
They do this to make money from the combine since they cannot make money themselves, JUST like all the other pit traders who failed to transition to screen trading get into the businesses I outlined in the other posts.
So their Metrics are worthless together with their education since their education and metrics are taken from their failed screen trading wisdom for the purpose of making money from the combine to run it like a business.
Fantastic, Statements proven with supporting evidence,( close enough agreement) now let's move on.
You provided some great responses. I think these are good points that you mention, I will list your claims clearly:
1)The traders are usually irresponsible and lose 20k on average in futures, so instead of them doing that, THESE traders come to TST to take a $200 combine to find out that they suck at trading or lack something WITHOUT losing the expensive 20k.
Therefore, TST does these traders a service and that is the VALUE in the combine.
2) The combine is also fantastic and has another value in that;
We, the traders, cannot keep ourselves DISCIPLINED enough, and cannot be HONEST with ourselves when we trade on a live free demo account.
We, the traders, always make excuses, reset our accounts, do not take ACCOUNTABILITY, do not keep a HONEST TRACK RECORD of our performance when demo trading.
However, the combine FORCES these things upon us. And therefore by the combine FORCING ALL of these things upon us, we become BETTER traders, and/or have the potential to IMPROVE our trading this way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
IN SUMMARY: An average trader takes 6 combines, pays $1,200 and takes up 1 year of his time.
IF the trader gets funded with the metrics/restrictions set on his account by the losing screen traders the trader will be given a 30k account with a $1,500 max loss on the whole account.
IN ADDITION he will be required to trade with the same restrictions that he did in the combine.
IN ADDITION there will be ONE more restriction on his account, and that is he will be REQUIRED to trade with a max position size of 1 contract until he builds up his account in the restricting environment the losing screen traders provide him.
With trading the odds are already against you, especially with day trading. However, they apply their losing screen trading wisdom to make sure the odds are even more against you. Did they trade Profitably with these restrictions themselves? Did they succeed in transitioning to become profitable screen traders with these metrics? did they take guinea pigs from other prop firms and do research/experiments? Their intentions are completely opposite and their stated combine objective, as they simply do this to make money as outlined in the first paragraph.
Why do they give you a 30k daytrading account, they can just give you a 5k-10k daytrading account with that type of loss limit. UNLIKE REAL prop firms, TST does NOT give you leverage/buying power. INSTEAD they apply restrictions/metrics based on their failed screen trading wisdom AND even apply a buying power restriction of 1 lot, minimizing your leverage/buying power.
so the trader loses $1,200 together with 1 year, and if he somehow breaks-even he still makes less than a person with no education that works in McDonalds (which is really irrelevant, but still)
Let's continue...
As I had showed you examples of REAL PROFITABLE traders with VERIFIED TRACK RECORDS and their interviews (prev. posts) did any one of those traders come from TST.
Did any one of those traders need someone to FORCE them to be DISCIPLINED, force them to be ACCOUNTABLE, force them to keep a TRACK RECORD of their trading?
Did anybodies mommy or daddy FORCE them to become a doctor because they hated studying, hated the profession, and had no will of their own? is that how they became successful.
My friends, we are not talking about getting VALUE here. We are talking about MAKING MONEY.
The reason that I say these things is because I have done my research on real PROFESSIONAL VERIFIED traders, as I have said in the previous posts my friends, and I know the big difference with learning from them, 100% honest and accountable, and being fed all of these REASONS and EXCUSES from FAILED SCREEN TRADERS who run a TRADING BUSINESS and are unprofitable themselves.
Do you really believe their failed trading bogus that they run. I HAD MYSELF, since I was committed to becoming a consistent part time earner in the markets, I really understand.
BUT, when I started doing research, which took forever and a long time, I found PROFESSIONAL VERIFIED traders and understood and REALIZED the difference and reason that these people ran this bogus right away my friends.
What does your neighbor know about surgery? he doesn't know shit and I will NEVER become a successful Surgeon if I learn from him no matter how much googling he does, no matter how much sht he runs on me, no matter how much he blames it on me and tells me most people don't make it. There is a difference when learning from the 90% of failed screen traders and the 5% consistent earners (Which are very difficult to find by the way).
So it doesn't matter what these already failed screen traders come up with because they don't know anything like all of the other pit traders who failed to transition and run similar businesses with the same intentions.
The point here is that listening to them and taking their combine, even those 2 values that you guys mentioned, is all futile when you compare how professional VERIFIED consistent earners become profitable in the markets and when you compare education from people who actually specialize in the field that you want to specialize in. You will see the bogus from the people that don't specialize and are not real professions in the field right away.
And so it is VERY difficult to find these Verified professionals and good education from them SINCE it's merely 5% of traders who don't all teach. HOWEVER this does NOT give TST or any other company the right to ACT or seem like a professional useful firm with useful services to those traders who have not found Professional Verified traders and do not know what a real professional is. These traders should not be trapped into justifying them because of lack of knowledge.
Since people hear of the "stock market" or "trading, and of the "banks" and "hedge funds" are involved in trading they automatically think every professional is a professional. They think this is a legit industry like medicine where only true doctors can act as doctors and run their medical business. But little do they know this industry is filled with the 90% (do you know how big 90% is?) losers who are all fakes, and some of them are great people and some are terrible, but they all mislead and have different intentions than what it seems and non of them are professionals. And they can get away with it legally.
The medical industry is the third leading cause of death in the U.S.
Q. You know what they call the guy who graduates last in his class at medical school?
A. Doctor
http://www.forbes.com/sites/leahbinder/2013/09/23/stunning-news-on-preventable-deaths-in-hospitals/
At least in the trading industry, if "they" mislead you about a combine that might cost the average aspiring trader between a couple hundred and a couple thousand dollars while they try to make it, it's unlikely to result in death.
there is a one week trading challenge on TST which starts next week with 32 $ entry fee .there is no loss limit and trading maximum 15 lots is allowed an top ten account balance holders will win .
who are going to participate in this challenge ?
who are going to participate in this challenge ?