Topsteptrader

[new]

There were some hidden things there that was interesting to me:

1) Non-compete agreement (Not sure why this is applicable - not like TST is teaching you the trade skills)

2) Not very well known part called Live Trade Preparation step - which seemed mostly just a second combine.

3) A bit weird with their refund scheme.

4) The guys who run the shop there either doesn't know much about risk management or recruitment. / OR they just want as many people as possible under their program. (They won't understand basic statistics and what's relevant for running a prop shop - but then again, maybe they're not trying to run a prop shop.)

I'm sure a lot of people already talked about this but seems like a good place for a novice to start but definitely not a place for anyone who have anything more than a rudimentary knowledge in futures trading and certainly not for someone who already know what their edge is. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who's a scratch trader either.

Hope this helps.

 

[Maverick74]

There were some hidden things there that was interesting to me:

1) Non-compete agreement (Not sure why this is applicable - not like TST is teaching you the trade skills)

2) Not very well known part called Live Trade Preparation step - which seemed mostly just a second combine.

3) A bit weird with their refund scheme.

4) The guys who run the shop there either doesn't know much about risk management or recruitment. / OR they just want as many people as possible under their program. (They won't understand basic statistics and what's relevant for running a prop shop - but then again, maybe they're not trying to run a prop shop.)

I'm sure a lot of people already talked about this but seems like a good place for a novice to start but definitely not a place for anyone who have anything more than a rudimentary knowledge in futures trading and certainly not for someone who already know what their edge is. I wouldn't recommend it to someone who's a scratch trader either.

Hope this helps.

All have been discussed ad nauseam.

 

[palinuro]

Traders trying to make a living while trading full time on 30k, 150k etc, paying retial

comission , having restrictions like overall day wininng of 55% or more, profit target

of $9000 ( on 150k funded account) , max draw down of $4500, 10 day duration etc.

have no chance. As usual there are ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS.

This does not mean TST program does not have merits for traders to check what's

it's like before juming into trading full time. Traders doining combine 5 times, 7 times

and on and on- have no clue.

If it's impossible on 30K-50K-150K of OPM they certainly aren't going to succeed with their own 5K - 10K account.

I agree that repeating failing combines over and over is a waste of money and time, but the people I see don't seem to be doing that - they fail, then retool / practice, then try again. It's a system that encourages deliberate practice, not compulsive repetition.

My own experience with Topstep has been pretty positive. I'm about to finish my 4th rollover combine, so while I haven't got funding it hasn't cost me anything (apart from opportunity cost of missing some trades in my own account) .

 

[SplawnDarts]

The math of Topstep seems simple:

• They cannot possibly lose unless they deem you to pass the combine.
• You cannot possibly win unless they deem you to pass the combine.

On that basis alone you can deduce what their policies, both stated and unstated, will be. And from there you can deduce what your results will be

 

[ScalperJoe]

When I'm trading 5-lots, many of those "trades" are 1-contract in, 1-contract in, 3-in or 2-in and 3-in scaled entries as price moves in favor directionally. Sometimes in the chop, I'll probe several 1-in and scratch them out as price chops sideways. Each event is counted as a "trade".

So for the sake of "averaging up" to control losses while leveraging for big enough wins to meet the timed deadline of profit performance, "trades" count is skewed.

"2-in and 3-in scaled entries as price moves in favor directionally."

It has been mentioned repeatedly that there are ADDITIONAL rules to follow if you pass the combine. Specifically, the "no scaling down" and "no scaling up" rules.

So even if you were to pass the combine by scaling up, you can't do that in the Jr. Trader account, unless you first had $1,000 in net P&L, or you risk being sent BACK to combine.

In other words, when you trade the combine again with CL exclusively, one approach is to try and meet the parameters that correspond to Jr Trader, since that is the only way to effectively measure the combine metrics. If the approach is to use the combine as a training tool, then it really doesn't matter. However, if the approach is to get funded, then you increase the odds that you'll pass the Jr Trader stage if you incorporate the additional rules in your combine.

 

[ScalperJoe]

Most importantly:

3. It doesn't matter how they change the rules in the Combine, if they don't change the rules in the LTP and Live trading. I am not aware of any change in the later 2, so the new rules will make more people pass the Combine and TST making more fees from it, but it doesn't really mean there will be more backed traders eventually.

Just think about that 3rd point while you are sipping margareta on the beach...

Yes, I think those who follow this thread and have a thorough understanding of the rules will agree with #3.

Passing the combine is NOT the most important step, it's passing the Jr Trader phase (whether or not one has to take the LTP).

Having a continuous combine is a good thing, as it definitely eliminates the need to cherry-pick what one thinks will be the best trading days, and it matches the Jr Trader stage in that it has no time limit for reaching the P&L objective.

However, what traders need to focus their attention on are the ADDITIONAL rules, which are still not part of the combine, but ARE part of Jr Trader.

 

[ScalperJoe]

"2-in and 3-in scaled entries as price moves in favor directionally."


So even if you were to pass the combine by scaling up, you can't do that in the Jr. Trader account, unless you first had $1,000 in net P&L, or you risk being sent BACK to combine.

Correction: austinp traded the 50k combine, which requires $500 in net P&L before scaling up in the Jr Trader account, not $1,000.

 

[Pekelo]

The only consistent thing about TST is the constant rule changes, and that we can be sure they throw the previous (formerly extremely important) rules out of the window disregarding everything they said earlier.

Having a continuous combine is a good thing,

I disagree. Using the CC a trader with very limited annualized returns still can pass it. But the Combine is supposed to be an interview tool for a job, so if they want to back traders with the ability of a 100%+ annual return, why should and how could an only 10% annualized trader pass it? That just goes in the face of any logic and common sense, unless you realize that they are in the Combine fee making business.

A few weeks ago one of the ETers here missed the target by a tick, because he miscounted the profits. He should have got a chance at the LTP. but no, he wasn't good enough for them. Now a bunch of inferior traders might get the chance, because the old rule suddenly disappeared.

But having a time limit does make sense:

1. You compare apples to apples.
2. The interview process (and time and money waste) doesn't go on forever.
3. They should be looking for a certain trader who can make at least X % annualized profit. There has to be a cut off somewhere...

Instead of the new CC, they could have lowered the target, or treated it in a more relaxed way and people getting real close could have a pass if their trading justified it. (consistent profits and not just 1-2 big hits)

The CC achieves one goal, making more profit for TST and keeps the dreamers in the process for a longer time.

They should have only 1 Combine, with 3 very simple rules: Make at least X amount of money in Y timeframe while not losing more than Z. That is it. Everything else is irrelevant to the bottom line. Now we can argue about the values of X, Y and Z, but an interview process should be standard and simple. Let them use at least 5 cars, that many is enough to show money management. Making more Combines just confuses most people.

And as already mentioned and agreed upon, (let's use an American Ninja Warrior analogy); it doesn't matter how easy they make the first stage, if the next 2 stages* stay the same difficulties before you reach Mount Mojorama...

*Boy, the cannonball alley was brutal....

 

[shiko2000]

"A few weeks ago one of the ETers here missed the target by a tick, because he miscounted the profits. He should have got a chance at the LTP"

I guess it is about me.

I have completed 15 days and I am well above the target now.
Need to win one more day to have min 55% win rate. 10 win days and 5 losing so far.


Starting Balance: $30,000
Max Position Size: 3
Daily Loss Limit: $500
Max Drawdown: $1,500
Winning Day %: 64
Max Drawdown: -654.5
Largest Winning Day: 497
Largest Losing Day: -355
Avg. Winning Day: 290
Avg. Losing Day: -210
Combine Rules
Rule met Average Net P&L greater than $0 for each product traded
Rule met Overall Winning Day percentage of 55 or greater
Rule met Largest Losing Day will not hit or exceed Daily Loss Limit
Rule met Account Balance will not hit or exceed Trailing Max Drawdown

AVERAGE 111 9 23 5 3 2 99 96 -90 2:1 69 2 1 00:10:17 00:08:06
JUL 16 297 6 15 3 3 0 104 104 0 3:0 100 3 0 00:04:47 00:00:00
JUL 15 497 6 15 3 3 0 170 170 0 3:0 100 3 0 00:05:45 00:00:00
JUL 14 25 10 25 5 3 1 40 41 -75 3:1 75 3 1 00:03:36 00:04:14
JUL 09 287 10 25 5 3 2 117 150 -68 3:2 60 1 1 00:04:16 00:12:49
JUL 08 380 8 20 4 3 0 100 133 0 3:0 100 2 0 00:07:55 00:00:00
JUL 07 290 4 10 2 2 0 150 150 0 2:0 100 2 0 00:04:17 00:00:00
JUL 02 195 12 30 6 5 1 66 62 -87 5:1 83 5 1 00:06:49 00:21:58
JUL 01 242 8 20 4 2 2 134 200 -68 2:2 50 2 2 00:04:50 00:00:48
JUN 30 -355 12 30 6 3 3 66 12 -120 3:3 50 2 1 00:12:24 00:12:59
JUN 26 -307 8 20 4 1 3 90 37 -108 1:3 25 1 3 00:12:34 00:25:57
JUN 25 -152 6 15 3 1 2 62 25 -81 1:2 33 1 1 00:26:38 00:27:41
JUN 24 -142 12 30 6 3 2 75 12 -137 3:1 50 3 2 00:06:12 00:02:37
JUN 23 397 6 15 3 3 0 137 137 0 3:0 100 3 0 00:06:30 00:00:00
JUN 19 -95 18 45 9 3 6 72 100 -58 3:6 33 2 5 00:37:35 00:04:27

This is my current P&L for today. I am done this week.
$31.735
Could have made $100 more but I was so stressed today knowing I am passed the target but still have 6 days to go, I could not close my trades properly. instead of closing i was adding and then closing lost on fees and average price.
never happened to me in probably 4-5 months. I mean execution mistakes.

To be frank ZS is horrible market now.
Liquidity is absent.
Dropped probably 4-5 times of usual. Spread sometimes widens to 2 points. constant holes in prices.
Thankfully I have been very patient, traded my plan to the point and finally managed to always stay within my $350 daily loss limit.
Were I not discipline di would have been slaughtered . June and July is horrible.
Anyone has any idea what the matter with soybeans?

Will post results when I am done.
cross fingers.

 

[austinp]

Correction: austinp traded the 50k combine, which requires $500 in net P&L before scaling up in the Jr Trader account, not $1,000.

yes, in the past Junior Trader status had no time deadline to reach min profit goals while combine had 10-day mandates

so because of that disparity, my plan was to scale-in trade the combine for max favorable leverage due to need for limited-time performance mandates

however, now that the 10-day guillotine has been lifted, I can simply coast along with straight entries until such time later that minimum gains are booked before scaling in. Or in other words, now that the combine AND junior trader parameters match, we can trade them the same instead of unique approaches dictated by unique rules for each.