Topsteptrader

[Clint]

Most of you guys still are not getting it. And no surprise it's the same ones as before that didn't get it. The success rate at TST is no higher or lower then the success at ET or the retail population in general who trades futures. That's the point. Therefore TST as a parameter to evaluate anything meaningful is useless.

Where the value is, is that the 95% or 99% failure rate of "futures traders" have a higher expected return with TST. How? Some simple math will solve this. Since the avg retail trader has a negative expectancy and assuming the same expectancy of TST clients, since the losses one will experience are less at TST then their retail account then expected return, or in this case, their expected loss is less negative (higher). Therefore TST offers more value then the alternative. And no, I don't expect most to understand this, I doubt math or numbers is a strength for most around here.

Assuming that you are a winning trader it is probably worth it to trade on your own rather then TST. Helping you go from a losing trader to a winning trader without losing your home, all of your savings, your kids college money and your foodstamp benefits is where TST comes in. TST allows you to "compete against the market" for the cost of taking a losing trade on CL. When you prove that you can pass the combine, either option A you have a chance to become funded if you still don't like the idea of opening up your own account. Or Option B, Funding your own account assuming you didn't lose your home before you found TST and you still have some money left to open an account

 

[Maverick74]

Assuming that you are a winning trader it is probably worth it to trade on your own rather then TST. Helping you go from a losing trader to a winning trader without losing your home, all of your savings, your kids college money and your foodstamp benefits is where TST comes in. TST allows you to "compete against the market" for the cost of taking a losing trade on CL. When you prove that you can pass the combine, either option A you have a chance to become funded if you still don't like the idea of opening up your own account. Or Option B, Funding your own account assuming you didn't lose your home before you found TST and you still have some money left to open an account

Absolutely. I have stated this over and over, there is no economic incentive to trade with TST if you are already a profitable futures trader and again, some simple math can demonstrate the expected returns from both choices.

 

[nazzdack]

----no economic incentive to trade with TST....
----you are already a profitable futures trader....
----simple math....
----expected returns from both choices.

FWIW .... a funded trader at TopStep, theoretically and conceivably, could have their account size and/or buying power "ramped up" quickly if they show good risk management and stellar rates of return compared to somebody trading their own account. Still, one has to get through the combine to realize that possibility.

 

[NoDoji]

My friend recently had a chance to speak with a TST trader who's been funded for several years now and the question of "why not just trade on your own?" came up. The reason for him was simply that he was more comfortable trading someone else's money, not having his own capital at risk. He nets significantly more than $30K/year.

 

[austinp]

FWIW .... a funded trader at TopStep, theoretically and conceivably, could have their account size and/or buying power "ramped up" quickly if they show good risk management and stellar rates of return compared to somebody trading their own account. Still, one has to get through the combine to realize that possibility.

while this isn't something I lay awake thinking about at night... if TST offered the Russell as a contract in the combines I'd have been all over that long ago. Seriously now, what's the downside of qualifying for an extra $100k or $150k (or however the hell you want to quantify it) buying power than what you already have on hand?

If someone(s) offered you up to 80% split on their $100k or $150k that's above & beyond your own money, where is the downside to that? None that I can see. I'm pondering a run with CL only in the near future, got too much on my plate right now at this time but perhaps we'll give it a try soon. If the TF were a combine contract, I'd certainly have hit it before now.

 

[volente_00]

Most of you guys still are not getting it. And no surprise it's the same ones as before that didn't get it. The success rate at TST is no higher or lower then the success at ET or the retail population in general who trades futures. That's the point. Therefore TST as a parameter to evaluate anything meaningful is useless.

Where the value is, is that the 95% or 99% failure rate of "futures traders" have a higher expected return with TST. How? Some simple math will solve this. Since the avg retail trader has a negative expectancy and assuming the same expectancy of TST clients, since the losses one will experience are less at TST then their retail account then expected return, or in this case, their expected loss is less negative (higher). Therefore TST offers more value then the alternative. And no, I don't expect most to understand this, I doubt math or numbers is a strength for most around here.

I disagree. All tst does is allow the person to be strung along and slowly bleed them of their money while masking what the truth the market would teach them in a quicker fashion.

 

[volente_00]

while this isn't something I lay awake thinking about at night... if TST offered the Russell as a contract in the combines I'd have been all over that long ago. Seriously now, what's the downside of qualifying for an extra $100k or $150k (or however the hell you want to quantify it) buying power than what you already have on hand?

If someone(s) offered you up to 80% split on their $100k or $150k that's above & beyond your own money, where is the downside to that? None that I can see. I'm pondering a run with CL only in the near future, got too much on my plate right now at this time but perhaps we'll give it a try soon. If the TF were a combine contract, I'd certainly have hit it before now.

I believe someone posted before part of the agreement to being a live trader for them includes signing an agreement that they are entitled to part of the profits on any trading you do outside of the tst account as well.

 

[volente_00]

My friend recently had a chance to speak with a TST trader who's been funded for several years now and the question of "why not just trade on your own?" came up. The reason for him was simply that he was more comfortable trading someone else's money, not having his own capital at risk. He nets significantly more than $30K/year.

How many years has he netted over 30k for them ?

 

[Maverick74]

I disagree. All tst does is allow the person to be strung along and slowly bleed them of their money while masking what the truth the market would teach them in a quicker fashion.

Come again? What kind of gibberish is this? You can't refute the math, you didn't even try so you try to get all philosophical. LOL. "Masking the truth the market would teach them"? LOL. You mean empty their pockets. Because that is exactly what will happen and you know that. Every last dollar. Again, do the math, side by side comparison. The ENPV is higher under TST 100 times out of a 100. And in case you don't know what ENPV is, it's the expected net present value. Just look it up.

 

[volente_00]

Come again? What kind of gibberish is this? You can't refute the math, you didn't even try so you try to get all philosophical. LOL. "Masking the truth the market would teach them"? LOL. You mean empty their pockets. Because that is exactly what will happen and you know that. Every last dollar. Again, do the math, side by side comparison. The ENPV is higher under TST 100 times out of a 100. And in case you don't know what ENPV is, it's the expected net present value. Just look it up.

What math ?

If the program truly worked you would bet your ass they would have these success stories posted all over the net.

Where are these successful traders at ?


The fact remains a retail trader has a higher chance of making it on their own than being handicapped by tst rules and giving up 40% of the profits.


The whole model is based to profit off of failure so where is the incentive to make you a profitable trader that puts the owners money at risk ?